Should I switch to GP? Some basic hardware setup questions

Hello GP community!

Currently I am thinking about building a guitar rig based on GP for rehearsals and live playing with my rock band.

About me:

I’ve played guitar for over two decades. I used valve amps with pedalboards for years, but I also got into DAWs and home recording very early on. Most of the time when I play guitar, I’m sitting in front of my computer using VST plugins inside a DAW.

All my analog gear is gone. After spending several years as a “bedroom guitarist,” I recently joined a band again and need a proper live/rehearsal amp solution.

My core sound requirements are pretty straightforward:

Clean / Crunch / Lead

Chorus, Octaver

Wet Delay & Reverb for ambient sounds

After testing a few compact and affordable hardware modelers (Nano Cortex, Kemper Player, Fractal FM3, Headrush Flex Prime), I’m still not quite satisfied. The Flex Prime is currently sitting on my desk, but I can still return it tomorrow.

I stumbled upon Gig Performer, watched a ton of YouTube videos, and tested it yesterday. I was very impressed by the stability, seamless switching, and flexibility.

Could a setup based on Gig Performer be the better solution for my needs?

A few hardware questions from a GP beginner:

Mac vs. Windows PC? Is one platform preferred by the community for live latency and stability?

Form factor? Laptop, Mini PC, Handheld PC, or Tablet?

System robustness: What are the best practices for hardening both software (OS settings) and hardware for stage use?

Is there a community-curated list of recommended/capable devices?

At home, I currently have a Mac Mini M4 (base model) used for recordings and a Windows Laptop (XMG Fusion 15 with i7-8750H).

Looking forward to your insights!

Depends :slight_smile: See our article here: [blog] Choosing which platform to use for live performance: PC or Mac?

There is a curated list of artists! :slight_smile: Index of guitarists and bassists

Check out the artists and see what rig they use.

Should I switch to GP?

Yes!

First: Yes! You absolutely should (at least) try Gig Performer!
From those computers that you already have at home, i would prefer the Mac over the XMG laptop because it seems much newer and more powerful than the rather old i7-8750H (which has a base frequency of only 2.2GHz).
Since you intend to play guitar plugins (no extensive sample libraries involved), you should be absolutely be fine with 16GB RAM.
Easiest thing to do would be to just install the Trial version of Gig Performer and see yourself if it runs properly on your system and your plugins (14 days full function only with some short random audio silencing from time to time).
This is something you could do on both systems, just to be sure how it runs.

If you then should need help - the forum is there for you (the devs are also permanently here).
Good luck with it!
Cheers!

Thanks for your responses :slight_smile: !

I agree that the Mac Mini would be the better choice in my case.

But I see several downsides:

  • I need some kind of display
  • No idea how to protect the device in live situations
  • No battery (UPS)
  • The Mini is my primary recording solution

I think about a dedicated device for my guitar rig.

Are there some recommandations for a budget system?
Maybe I start with my laptop for the rehearsals.

Budget system 1: GP on a budget - #19 by Spav
Budget system 2: My NAM Build for Stage

I use an Acer PM161Q monitor with my Mac Mini…works very well. At gigs I have a n APC model BN900M battery backup that keeps me out of power problems (this one is aging so I might be shopping for a newer smaller one in the near future).

Come on aboard!!

If you want to go ampless, GP is a good platform to build off of.

Mac vs. Windows: That is basically personal preference. Windows works best for me and my workflow. I use a Surface Pro 10 for Business. Microsoft Surface Pro and Surface Laptops seem to be a popular GP choice for Windows users. Apple’s walled garden approach tends to make for a more stable OS experience, but both Windows and Macs are going to run into issues/headaches. If you have a platform you are more comfortable with I’d go with that.

Form factor: I really like my surface pro. I can use a wireless keyboard/mouse and attach my surface pro to a mic stand with a tablet mount and I can see and control everything on stage. I’ve also attached a mini PC to the back of a portable touchscreen monitor with VESA mounts to good effect. Again, this goes to personal preference, what works best for your workflow, and what you are willing to spend. Since you have both a Mac and a Windows laptop, try the trial versions of GP for both and see which one works best for you. FYI, When I purchased GP I ended up getting the Mac/Windows bundle which wasn’t that much more than the Windows or Mac version alone. Also, I will say a touchscreen on stage is very useful!

System Stability Guides: GP has great guides for Windows and Mac to help make your system as stable as possible for using with GP for live performance.

Questions for you: You never mentioned an audio interface. Since you have been doing home recording for awhile I assume you have one. Are you going to use the one you have or do you need one specifically for a GP/liverig setup? Are you going truly ampless and sending directly to FOH or are you using an FRFR amp? You mentioned hardware modelers you were not satisfied with, do you already have software VSTs you like?

GP does not directly do amp modeling, although it bundles some free (buy me a beer) pedalboard VSTs which are not bad at all. If the hardware amp/effects modelers you used didn’t meet your expectations you might be looking at something more high end like Line6 Helix Stadium Native. It’s $400 right now but that is a lot better than the $2000+ for a full Helix Stadium board. And Helix Native now has a free version with limited effects and amp/cab models to test out. You can see how it runs on your machine with GP.

Recommended devices: I swear by RME interfaces. I consider RME the gold standard for quality and stability, but that comes at a hefty price tag. If you are making money gigging it might be worth the investment. An RME Babyface Pro FS has two instrument level ins (for say two guitars), plus two quality mic pre amps, as well as pro level balanced XLR outputs, ADAT i/o for adding eight more inputs and outputs at a later time, the best low latency USB drivers in the business, and one of the best audio routing mixing software packages with built in effects and EQ. I also just recently found a nice mount to secure my Babyface Pro FS to a mic stand. If budget is an issue I am partial to MOTU interfaces. An M4 might suit you well.

Final thoughts: GP with good amp/effects modeling software can be an excellent alternative to gigging with an amp/cab/pedalboard. Besides being able to easily get your software VSTs to switch to whatever settings you want, you can pair it with something like a MIDI footswitch/pedal board to switch between presets you make. Some MIDI footswitches/pedalboards have the ability to add expression pedals as well. GP can also display chord/lead-sheet/lyrics for all your songs which is useful. You’ll likely find things GP can do for you that you never knew you needed.

Good luck! I hope GP is a good fit for you.

Great human intelligence answer :slight_smile:

Wow, thanks for your input :slight_smile: ! Here are the missing informations:

I have two usb audio interfaces available:

  • Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen
  • Focusrite 18i8 2nd Gen

Is one the these fine? Or is there a big difference using something like RME?

The plan is to go direct to FOH. I guess its a good practice to use a DI box between interface and FOH?

Plugins:

  • Tonex
  • Tone 3000/ Gateway
  • Valhalla VintageVerb
  • Bias FX2
  • Some free stuff

My plan is to build sounds with an amp plugin (Tonex or Gateway) and the FX chains by individual plugins like VintageVerb. I have to look for nice delay, chorus, octaver and compressor plugins. Thoughts?

There are lots of interesting plugins: Helix Native Stadium, Genome 2 (i liked that one!), NeuralDSP stuff, …

By the way: The Flex Prime is packed in the cardboard again and will be returned tomorrow :sweat_smile:

Huge difference …. I also agree that RME is the gold standard. I don’t use the babyface, I have an older UFX and it has been awesome. Sound quality, low latency, amazing drivers, firmware mixer with effects (I use just the limiters for stage purposes) and the only drawback is it’s cost compared to other interfaces.

Focusrite makes solid interfaces. They are good for the price. At the very least both of those are great for testing out GP on both Mac and Windows.

The RME is a big step up from a 2i2, but only if you use all the features unique to it. If not, you will be paying five times as much for a quality difference that you might not even notice on a live stage. You had mentioned durability, low latency, and reliability as concerns. All of those is where the Babyface Pro FS shines, but possibly not enough to justify the expense of getting one if the 2i2 will do what you need to do.

At the end of the day, the only correct answer to ‘what is the best thing for me to get’ is what works best for you. I’ll put a pros and cons of the Babyface Pro FS on the bottom if you are interested; there was a reason I mentioned it for your use case, but I highly recommend trying out GP with what you have before you put down money on anything else.

As for a DI box, I sort of went on a rant about that recently. The Focusrites and other quality audio interfaces output balanced line level signals which is all a FOH should need. If your goal is to prevent ground loops and to protect your gear from accidental +48v phantom power or gear that is not properly grounded, you would want an iso (isolation) box. DI boxes are meant to convert high impedance instrument level signals to low impedance line level signals. You don’t want to potentially alter your already fine balanced line level signal by plugging it into something that is expecting a different type of signal and converting it to something that could potentially wildly (or subtlety) effect gain, tone, or add distortion if all you want is isolation and a ground lift. An iso box maintains the impedance of a line level signal and passes it through while providing protection from rogue electrical anomalies from FOH and provides a ground lift.

As for VST plugins. Find what you like and works best for you. A few things to keep in mind: Not all VSTs are created equal - VSTs can vary wildly in CPU usage, RAM usage, and stability. Just because GP is a stable platform does not mean a poorly written or buggy VST won’t crash your system. Usually it is good to not mix VST types, and AU for Mac. It is common best practice to make sure you are using either VST(2), VST3, or AU (for Mac) and not mix types together. GP does let you disable plugins you are not using, and if a plugin installs more than one type you can disable the type you are not using. I’ve also found it might not be best to mix a bunch of plugins from different companies, especially on the same signal chain. Consider using a comprehensive modeler, or get effects plugins from the same source for a more reliable, consistent, and stable experience. Pay attention to the CPU usage when you turn on a plugin.

Also, a lesson I re-learned the hard way over the summer, 44.1Khz is just fine for live performance. If a VST is designed for 44.1 and has to up convert, that can eat unnecessary CPU cycles and RAM, sometimes by a lot and introduce instability.

As you are testing out GP with your gear and plugins, find a tone that you like, but also stress test and field test for stability. Don’t find settings you like and gig with it the next day. As with anything there is a learning curve - be ready to remake and streamline your rackspaces as you get better at GP. There are many different ways of doing the same thing in GP, some are more efficient than others.

Sounds like you have a good setup already, and I hope you enjoy the discovery process as you transition from amps to VSTs for live performance!

Babyface Pro FS - Pros and Cons

Pros:

Durability - It is made from a single block of machined aluminum. The bottom has a 3/8" for mounting which is nice for on stage.

Stability/Low Latency - RME creates their own USB drivers which are known for being ultra stable and low latency.

Reliability / Longevity - RME is still supporting all devices they have made since 2001. They don’t abandon their hardware. There is no planned end of life like some companies.

Class Compliant Mode - the Babyface Pro FS can actually be used as a stand alone mixer, as well as hook up to tablets and phone in class compliant mode (which you have to switch to).

(For a guitarist specifically) Two high quality XLR mic preamps (if you sing as well) with individual switchable phantom power, plus two high quality instrument level inputs. You do not need a DI box to plug a guitar directly into the Babyface Pro FS. With two instrument level inputs you could have two guitars hooked up at the same time, each going to its own effects chain.

Quality Professional line level XLR outputs - there is a switch on the bottom of the unit to go from +4 to -10. Very clean and lots of headroom, very low noise floor.

Two headphone jacks, one quarter inch and one 1/8" and handles both high impedance and low impedance headphones very well.

Optical ADAT or SPDIF for adding more preamps and outputs. Besides inputs, after sending a stereo signal to FOH, imagine running your signal(s) to onstage FRFR (or two), IEMs, each with their own mix. With an ADAT preamp you get 12 inputs and 12 outputs at the same time.

MIDI I/O - add a MIDI pedalboard to control your VSTs and/or GP.

Case - A nice touch for gigging, it comes in a nice case with places for USB and MIDI breakout cables.

TotalmixFX - RMEs awesome mixing software built into the unit itself. 3 band EQ per channel, plus reverb and echo. Very powerful and useful. Built in effects are stable and reduce CPU usage. It also can be controlled by MIDI or OSC.

CONS:

TotalmixFX - The software is designed with a non-standard workflow in mind. Many people don’t get it or like the learning curve and get frustrated with it. You either have a TotalmixFX ‘A-ha!’ epiphany moment and think its the greatest thing ever, or you hate it. I have not seen many people in between. You CAN disable TotalmixFX and use your DAW for routing instead.

Cost - The Babayface Pro FS is about four to five times the cost of the 2i2. If none of the pros appeal to your use case, it might not be worth it to you.

Too Clean? - One (strange) criticism I sometimes hear is that the preamps are so clean and transparent that the sound sounds ‘sterile’.

No Android support for Totalmix Remote - TotalmixFX has a remote version for Windows, Mac, and iPad, but not Android or iPhone.

@lx87
Also note that everything is very well documented, tips are easy to follow.
Your journey won’t be without hints! :slight_smile: [blog] Best practices for a rock-solid software-based setup

Great answer and information - well done!

I’d like to add a thought to this paragraph for @lx87 :

One should be aware that the same plugin might behave diffrently among its used format (VST/VST3/AU). We’ve seen in the forums quite a few issues over the time, when a plugin didn’t work correctly when used as an AU or VST3 while the VST(2) version did the job very well - or vice versa in some cases.
What i wanted to say: Don’t think that, if you should be using a Mac, the AU version automatically will work best, probably that’s not the case.
Always keep in mind, if you ever shuld run into an issue with a plugin not working correctly, to first try it in another format… it’s been quite often that this helped.

(When you plan to use a Mac)
Another aspect in a community related POV, especially for the use of the AU format:
You will lock out all the PC-users from using/reviewing your work. Be it with sharing of your gig files/rackspaces (what you hopefully might do :wink:), or with seeking community help in case of issues… PC users most probably won’t be able to use those files without losing the plugin configuration and parameter assignment.
So, right at the start of working with Gig Performer, i’d like to recommend to not use AU if you ever plan to share your work (for any reason).

Just my $0.02
Cheers! :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

Thanks for your feedback and tipps :slight_smile: !

My plan is to use vst3 exclusively in case move from Mac to PC. Then the GP patches should still work on Windows? Maybe I will move on to a dedicated device only for the GP setup in the long run.

Maybe a “all in one” plugin like Helix Native (Stadium) or Genome 2 is my way to go. All in one from my POV means nice amps and fx as well in one plugin. So far I really like Native Stadium and Genome 2. I want to keep it simple in general.

The Babyface Pro FS looks awesome, but unfortunately its too expensive for me :frowning: . Are there other, more budget oriented recommandations?

If you haven’t already tried it, i would like to recommend the “S-Gear” plugin from Scuffham amps… It’s an “all-in-one” plugin which sounds very good and is absolutely lightweight on computer resources - of course it depends on the kind of music you play (it’s not for heavy sounds).

Regarding a decent (but not too expensive) audio interface, you should have a look at the models from Motu… they offer a great value for their price.

As a bonus point, we have eye-candy gig files for S-Gear. [Gig] S-Gear amp - The Stealer

Never tested S-Gear, but not its on my list :slight_smile: !

What about the login mechanism in plugins. Is it necessary to frequently go online and login? What is your experience? What happens if a mac or device stays offline for a while?

Needless to say, Gig Performer is “offline-friendly”. It does not ‘call home’ periodically. You can stay offline as long as you want.

Some updates about my setup:

  • I tested Helix Stadium Native several days and was so excited, that I bought a license :slight_smile: !
  • In my case the Gig Performer Essential feels like a good fit. My setup is simple. I think I will go with the Essential license.
  • Still testing on my Mac Mini M4, that is also my studio computer and my Focusrite 2i2. No issues so far, feels rock solid.
  • I owned a HX Stomp and a HX Stomp XL for years and am familiar with the snapshot stuff.

The next step is to choose and buy a midi foot-switch controller. I dont want wo spend a lot and to me there are the following models in the budget corner:

  • M-Wave Chocolate (Plus)
  • Midi Captain Std
  • Behringer FCB1010
  • Ampero Control
  • …?

What do you think about these?

My requirements:

  • Expression pedal is optional, its okay to add one later if necessary
  • At least 4 switches
  • Tap tempo via midi
  • Low to mid budget, prefer to buy a used one
  • No visual feedback necessary (led states or something like that). Will see the GP screen with the states on the monitor
  • Already have an USB to Midi converter.

I use this one (and it is still very popular).