Multi-Plug-In Set-Up For GP + Numa Compact 2X

[Jeff]

New user here (on trial). I have Numa Compact 2X, Pianoteq, IK Multimedia B-3X, getting Ivory II & Scarbee Rhodes.

So I will have four (4) plug-ins (I may add a bass, probably Ample, so five, actually).

I want to have the following things at my immediate disposal, controlled by the Numa:

1. 2 or more different sounds from each plug-in, on / off with volume for morphing (I suppose on / off is superfluous since volume @ 0 = “off”);

2. Several iterations of #1. So, e.g., #1 might look like this:

A: Ivory Steinway, Pianoteq Bechstein; Scarbee Rhodes Bark, Pianoteq Rhodes Bell, IK MM HO Chicago Rock, IK MM HO Burner, Ample Bass Acoustic Bass

B: Ivory Bosendorpher, Pianoteq Steinway D, Scarbee Rhodes Tremolo, Pianoteq Rhodes Chorus, Ample Bass Electric Bass

C: Same thing with different instruments

D: Same thing with different instruments

3. A dedicated acoustic piano, a dedicated electric piano and a dedicated Hammond Organ group of sounds, which might look like this:

A. Ivory Steinway, Ivory Bechstein, Ivory Bechstein pno / bass split, Pianoteq Steinway, Pianotech Bechstein

B. Scarbee Bark Rhodes, Pianoteq Bark Rhodes, Scarbee Chorus Rhodes, Pianoteq Tremolo Rhodes

C. IK MM HO Jimmy, Church, Chicago Rock, Burner, Lord

4. The ability to switch between these at will, on the Numa (e.g., now Rack #1, now Rack #2, etc.).

The Numa has 9 drawbars / sliders. For everything except the Hammond Organ dedicated group, I want them to be volume. For the Organ, I want them to be organ drawbars.

Now, I don’t know if any of this is possible, especially on the Numa, because:

A. One apparently has to program the drawbars ON THE NUMA (but maybe not, I didn’t for Pianoteq volume, and it worked doing that. But I DID have to select CC 16 to make them work as drawbars. I don’t know if GP is bilateral communication with a keyboard for this).

B. I think ONLY the drawbars do anything as far as MIDI goes on the NUMA. The rest of the buttons appear to be duds (but maybe not, I tried on / off switch on “panel” and pressing a button on the Numa made the panel toggle go “on,” but it got stuck there). I also note that as soon as I got one of the widgets to actually work, it didn’t “stick,” and it no longer works and even re-doing it from scratch doesn’t make it work.

So, ultimately I may need keyboard better suited to MIDI stuff than the Numa, but it’s light, small and I like the keybed touch for a non-weighted. I can schlep in NYC. Not true with many others.

I am primarily a saxophone player, but I’m a competent keyboard player as well. And, oddly, for some reason, I just picked up guitar.

I realize this involves more than one instance of each plug-in being available, and GP seems to want to assign a widget to only ONE plug-in per rack, so maybe it’s just not possible.

Any advice would be helpful. I note that I am not experienced with MIDI (“MIDIdiot”). However, I’m trainable and reasonably intelligent for a lawyer / Jazz saxophonist.

Thank you very much!

[schamass]

Hi Jeff and welcome to the GP-family!

I actually own a Numa C2X and i used it for a while as a controller for GP… ok, meanwhile i bought another keyboard and the Numa is standing in the corner, waiting to be sold (but it’s mostly because it was too large for my needs).
So the C2X has it’s very own peculiarities, especially when it comes to MIDI and the use of it as a masterkeyboard. As far as i can recall, there are those points which have to be taken care off:

1. The MIDI-function of the drawbars depends on what internal instrument you are using. If you select a (Numa-internal) organ sound, the drawbars behave in a diffrent way as they do if you select a (i.e.) piano sound. You can check the MIDI output of the diffrent settings in the global MIDI-monitor of GP.
   There are settings where you can freely assign each drawbar to a diffrent CC# - this is what you have to do to make this all work properly! Again: It may depend on what sound you have selected!
   I did set up one patch which i put at the first place, so that every time i switched on my Numa, i just had to select the #01 patch to make sure i had the right settings to use it properly as MIDI-controller.

2. You might have noticed that the patch design of the Numa always consists of two sounds - and so is the MIDI output it produces. That means either you will have always two notes played together at the same channel or you will have the same note played on two diffrent channels!
   I used to use the second setting with two separate channels and then filtered out the second channel in my MIDI-IN block within GP, so i always had a “proper” MIDI signal that only came in on just one channel (that’s what i personally wanted to have). Any splits or layering that were needed have been realized then within GP - i always let the Numa switched on that first internal patch.

Please make yourself familiar with the concept of the Rig Manager of GigPerformer and use its possibilities, since it will save you a whole lot of work, time and nerves when you continue to develop your rackspaces and even more if you ever should change your keyboard controller or you maybe add another controller (like the little Behringer X-Touch Mini, which fits exactly into the upper right corner of the keyboard and which will give you a lot of additional knobs and buttons ).

Then i’d strongly recommend you to let go the traditional way of how to control plugins (don’t use direct links of CC# to a plugin’s parameters) but embrace GigPerformer’s concept of using widgets and the so called “host automation” (don’t forget to RTFM! ). Together with the Rig Manager’s aliases for your keyboard’s controls this will be a very flexible and powerful combination! Dare to do it!

That’s what i can tell you regarding the general setup, but i don’t really know what you actually want to achieve when i read your description for your sound design with all those diffrent plugins to be active all together… but i guess we can clear that up somehow.
There are many people here who will be willing to help.
If you have questions: Ask!

[Jeff]

Thank you for this information and the welcome! I achieved some minor “success” last night forcing the first four (4) drawbars to function as volume controls for four different plug-ins (two each of Pianoteq and IK MM Hammond Organ).

I had to set the Numa’s drawbars for CC #3 (a blank, I guess). I didn’t use “MIDI learn” - I used “edit” and manually set them on GP.

I didn’t notice any “double tracking,” but I did a while back when using the Numa for a recording on my DAW (I had to delete out the doubles).

I’ve not delved into “Rig Manager” yet. I’ve not grasped the concept of “aliases,” so I’ll have to study up on that. What is “RTFM”?

I have a bunch of keyboards. I selected the Numa for this project (which involves schlepping in NYC on public transpo - subways, busses, walking) for its light weight, small form factor and decent playability in the keybed.

I can buy something else if you can recommend something. Maybe one of those Behringers will do. No drawbars, though…

Hey, do any other controls on the Numa DO anything as far as MIDI, save the drawbars and the three (3) “effects” rotary knobs? Not as far as I can see.

Thank you again for your comprehensive answer!

• Jeff

[dhj]

@Jeff

RTFM

Read the F—G Manual

That acronym is from the old computer days !

[Jeff]

I didn’t know there was a manual. I just have the trial. Thanks; now I “get” the previous post’s use of the acronym.

[schamass]

BTW: I could/should have posted a link to the manual… so here it is (if you haven’t found it yourself already):
https://gigperformer.com/docs/GP4UserManual/index.html

[Jeff]

Thank you - that should help a lot!

Who has the best GP videos on uTube? Some are more in the “sales” category than the “nuts and bolts” one needed here…

[npudar]

Here’s a solid compilation: Gig Performer | Gig Performer Videos

P.S.

The most recent PDF version of the user guide is here: User Manual for GP4 - #5 by djogon

[dhj]

@Jeff

I didn’t know there was a manual.

Clicking on the Help menu links you to all sorts of resources

[Jeff]

OK … new to all this… Will check it out!

[Jeff]

I thought I just saw a link to the PDF version of the manual from GP with commentary about the quick response. Now I don’t see that info…

[schamass]

Regarding the Numa C2x as a Midi controller for GigPerformer:
Since the C2x offers 2 diffrent MIDI ports, use the one that is called “MIDIIN2” for GigPerformer.
Then set the drawbars to diffrent CC#. To do so, activate the “MIDI” button, then switch one of the two “Zones” of a patch as active, then short-press the “EDIT” button dial to menu item #14/16 and then use the data knob to adjust the desired CC# to a slider (or switch the CC for the sliders of one zone to OFF).
The active slider that is shown in the menu will change when you move another one of the 9 sliders.
That way i configured my patch to start at CC#20 for slider #1 over to CC#29 for slider#9.
Doing this will give you 9 independent “faders” to use.

This is where i placed my little Behringer when i played with the Numa - it fits there quite well, because i never used those knobs when i used the C2X as MIDI keyboard:

The Behringer X-Touch Mini offers 16 Buttons and 8 knobs on 2 layers (=32 buttons/16knobs) which work bidirectional in GigPerformer. In Addition there is a separate fader and the 8 knobs can also be pressed like buttons (but this doesn’t generate any optical feedback on the controller).
There might be one drawback for it:
The editor software to configure the controller, is only available for Windows!

Maybe this can help you to better get along with your keyboard.

[Jeff]

Thank you!

I’m considering that Behringer and the Korg Nano 2, which has drawbars.

I think I achieved the same drawbar set-up, and have 9 sounds (piano, electric piano, organ, etc.), but they are volume only, and there is no on / off.

So I think the CPU use is too high.

Does your set up have on / off for the VSTs?

[schamass]

As i mentioned before, i don’t use the Numa anymore.
But there could be two solutions for your problem:

1. Get an additional controller with enough buttons to where you can map the widgets for bypassing.
2. Use scripting to automatically bypass a plugin as soon as the volume is 0 or below a defined threshold value.

But no matter matter which option you use, you should always avoid probably hanging notes or sound pops when enabling/disabling a plugin while playing!

[Jeff]

Thank you!

I like solution #2 better - automatic, but…

AFAICT, “scripting” = programming, which is not something that I’ve ever done.

I’m looking at Behringer, Korg & Touch OSC / iPad…

[Dick]

Or, if you would like have some more fader control, and are able to spend some more money:

Icon Platform M+

Is also quite nice, as it has motorised faders…

[David-san]

I use it with its optional display unit (Platform D2).

[Jeff]

That looks very nice … available in USA? Didn’t see it anywhere. Did see some other Icon products…

[dhj]

A trivial search shows that product available from lots of places in the US, e.g. B&H Audio

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1349041-REG/icon_pro_audio_platformm_platform_m_desktop.html

[Jeff]

Didn’t show up @ Sweetwater, AMS, Amazon, nor Google of “MIDI control surface.”

Of course there are lots of these on offer. Easy to miss one. $420 is steep.

Anyway, I just ordered the Korg Nano Studio. $179. Maybe the BT works… If not, maybe return for the NanoKontrol2. Trying to keep this light and small.