My harmoniser has been running happily via USB, and is receiving audio to determine the chords. There is a slight delay so I thought I’d swap the USB input to a midi cable to eliminate the latency. My controller is sending midi on Ch 14 and the midi monitor shows it is receiving Ch 14 data ok, but the hamonizer is not receiving any info. I’m using an iConnect Mio USB to midi cable straight out of the computer into the hamonizer. Should I be using a midi out block as well set to the Mio? I’ve tried all sorts of options but nothing works. Any help would be much appreciated.
Yes, you should. Otherwise how would the Midi Out block know to where to send the MIDI messages?
So why would you change from an high speed USB MIDI, to an old DIN5 MIDI?
Why do you think using the old method would reduce this delay ?
So, you remove a direct USB connection because it is suspected to introduce a delay and your remedy to shorten this delay is to add an additional piece of hardware?
Something in this approach is not clear to me🤔
Not “suspected” at all! I can hear the delay! If I couldn’t hear it, I wouldn’t be bothering about trying an alternative. According to TC helicon who make the unit I have, they have added a slight delay to the 1/8” aux input because the processor needs some time to analyse the audio to figure out what the chord is. I just thought that by trying out an actual midi input that it might be more instantaneous being midi data, not audio as I’ve explained.
I didn’t wrote that you suspect there is a delay while you can hear it. I wrote that you suspect the USB to be responsible of this.
I am curious to see what will happen with your new TC Helicon setup, but I am pretty sure the delay is more due to the time needed to do an audio analysis of the harmony.
Is there no way to give this device MIDI notes to evaluate which chord is played? Using MIDI notes it would probably be quicker.
Yes, I’m sure midi notes is the best way. That’s why I wanted to try the din midi port. The only other way is a mini USB for program change and firmware update, but I don’t think it accepts midi notes input. The unit I have is the TC Perfom VK.
Are you feeding the output of the TC-Helicon back into Gig Performer?
No. It goes to a mixer after that. While the VK is designed to be used with a keyboard, I’m using it with a Guitar Hero PS 3 controller. To receive audio input whilst using the VK with the guitar, I take the headphone output of a RME Babyface Pro using a 1/8” stereo jack cord and plug it into the aux input of the VK. It’s alright, but has a slight delay while it analyses the chords. If I remember, I anticipate the chord changes and this seems to help. However, I’m still curious to find out if midi input via a din cord would eliminate the delay.
Just had a quick look to your Hamonizer manual. If you install the USB driver, there is something like an USB audio interface such that you could route your voice, and “guitar” chords from your BabyFace to the TC-Helicon using internal software audio connections (without using the headphone outputcfor this).
It is not clear from the manual if they have also USB MIDI or only USB AUDIO, because they need a driver for both USB AUDIO and MIDI, while there is only a DIN5 MIDI in on the device.
If there is no USB MIDI as I suspect, it is that you simply what to use the DIN5 MIDI in on the device to detect the chords quicker than with audio detection. Do I understand correctly?
Thanks for the extra input here. I do have that USB driver installed and with the USB cable plugged in, it does everything for the VK including program change, FX on/off, various volume levels etc. every thing except midi note data for harmony. I tried the Mio interface again along with a midi output block set to Mio (as DJH suggested in a previous post). I saw the red data indicator light on the VK light up when the guitar controller was played, so the note data is getting there. However, the harmonies will not change with this method. When you said “USB audio interface” above, did you have something specific in mind?
From the manual:
There are 4 input and 8 output channels for USB audio in PERFORM-VK. A driver is required for both USB audio AND MIDI use. It can be found at tc-helicon.com/products/perform-vk/support/
- CH 1 Backing Track L
- CH 2 Backing Track R
- CH 3 Dry vocal in
- CH 4 NaturalPlay IN
If no signal is transmitted to the product on USB audio channel 3, the product will use analog in for the voice input. So, you could use channels 1&2 to input stereo tracks from your DAW but sing into the product via your mic. Note that channel 1&2 input is NOT passed to the USB outputs, but IS passed to the Main analog outs. If you use a computer for backing tracks, they will get sent analog to the PA. Volume control for those tracks happens at the computer. NaturalPlay IN is not connected to the audio output. It is used only for NaturalPlay chord input. This is intended to allow you to use a “guide track” for NatualPlay that you may not want heard in the mix. It could be dry guitar chords or piano chords, with different voicings or placement in order to create your desired harmony output.
- CH 1 L processed vocal, Keyboard/ Aux in (same as what is on main outputs, less the audio received on USB in
- CH 2 R processed vocal, Keyboard/ Aux in (same as what is on main outputs, less the audio received on USB in 2
- CH 3 Dry Voice input
- CH 4 Not used
- CH 5 Dry INST IN R / Aux L
- CH 6 Dry INST IN R / Aux R
- CH 7 Harmony Voices L
- CH 8 Harmony Voices R
So, I supposed, beside any TC-Helicon standalone control software using the USB, you should also see these audio channels within GP as an audio interface (TC USB OUT~ GP Audio in block, TC USB IN ~ GP Audio out block). The idea would be to route your mic from the GP BabyFace input to the GP TC output “CH 3 Dry vocal in”, while your hamonized vocals are then supposed to be availabe in a TC related GP Audio in block (CH 7 Harmony Voices L + CH 8 Harmony Voices R).
How do you manage to do this? Is ther a TC related MIDI out block available? TC manual is very very unclear regarding many aspects of the device.
So, at this point it is still not clear to me if the USB can be used for MIDI or not, but the DIN5 MIDI of the TC unit should definitely work. You can of course verify what you are feeding to the TC hamonizer using a GP MIDI monitor plugin, e.g. placed just before the Mio MIDI out block.
The is an important point to verify. There is a possibility to define the note range of the MIDI controller used by the TC device to detect the chords.
From the manual:
Split Point (and Transpose)
When controlling harmony via MIDI, in either Notes mode or NaturalPlay, it is sometimes desirable to have one section of the keyboard designated to sending that control information. It could be the area that your left hand is, to play chords of harmonies. In order to designate an area of the keyboard to respond to, a Split Point is set. Any notes, either above or below the split point, are deemed useable by the system. Notes outside the range are rejected.
To set the Split Point, hold the SET button and press the note on your keyboard that you want to act as the split note. Then, to choose a split ABOVE that note, release the split note and press a note ONE SEMITONE ABOVE your split note. To choose a split BELOW, release the split note and press a note ONE SEMITONE BELOW your split note.
I could be interesting for us you to post a screenshot of your GP connection view.
I want to thank all for the input. I have seen the info from the manual before but found it very confusing. There is a forum/user group but not that helpful. It seems to be down at the moment as the links are broken. In the meantime, I’ll carry on with my present setup i.e. Babyface pro feeding headphone audio into the VK aux jack to set harmonies, until I figure out what to do with the given info.
Actually, these don’t show up at all in GP. Well, Perform VK shows, but only as a whole, not split up into the various parts you mention. So, as a test, I loaded my DAW (Sonar) and then they all appeared as options to use. So it looks to me as though the USB out is intended as a recording only protocol not live use.