Loopback 2.0

New Loopback 2.0 has been released.

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Thanks for the update, mate! Bought the Update. :smile:

Best regards,

Mike

I’m curious about the latency people are getting with this. I bought it to connect multiple Gig Performer instances on an M1 MacBook Pro (10 cores, 32GB), but the results have not been acceptable.

My use case is to have multiple “performers” feed one “conductor”/ mixer. I’ve got it working properly, except for latency/clicks/pops.

Each “performer” has the audio interface as its input and Loopback as its output. The mixer receives audio from Loopback and sends it to the interface. Unfortunately, Gig Performer doesn’t allow separate buffer sizes for input and output. I can run my RME Babyface Pro FS at 32 samples, but even at 256 samples for my new setup, I get artifacts. That puts my system at 1024 samples plus overhead end to end.

I did a test with a single stereo loopback using the RME at 32 samples and it worked great. I’d probably bump it to 64 samples to play it safe as I might have heard a rare glitch on my fuzzy guitar, but I might have been hearing things. The problem is that I don’t have enough channels on the Babyface.

I looked into changing thread priorities, but didn’t see any controls in the Loopback software. I looked into the Activity Monitor, but the only Loopback processes exposed are for the UI. The drivers seem to be integrated into the kernel, so I can’t open a terminal and execute renice to speed it up.

A weird thing with Loopback on my system is that the glitches occur at about the same rate with short latencies as long latencies. Maybe the RME interface has a nice steady clock while Loopback operates whenever the OS get around to it.

I’m waiting for Rogue Amoeba to respond to my email. Could it be that the product targets podcasters and zoom users, rather than live pro audio?

Please let me know if you’ve had success with Loopback for multiple instances, or if I need to buy a bigger audio interface. Thanks!

What version of loopback are you using?
The newest version is 2.3.2

Because I am curious, why do you need Loopback?
On my System I am using Gig Performer for playing live and Ableton Live for Click and Backing Tracks.
Gig Performer is sending to 2 software returns and Ableton send to other software returns to RME
With Total Mix I balance the signals.

No need for loopback.

I’m running the latest version. I just downloaded and purchased it this week.

While I could render backing tracks, I’ve chosen to do things more dynamically, so I can change virtual instruments and effects plugins without re-rendering my tracks. I composed orchestral film music for a decade or so, which put me in the mindset of sequencing many tracks.

In addition, I play guitar, sing, have a couple of keyboards, and a Zendrum, and plan to do looping, so having many instruments at the ready is a key goal.

In general, I was getting the job done with a single instance, but it was a real pain to make updates across multiple songs when I’d get new plugins or want to apply a new approach to mixing and sidechaining. With separate instances, I can go to my drum instance, change the local rackspace for that song, and try it out.

In my dreams, Gig Performer 5.0 would offer a couple of versions. “Gig Performer Solo” would be for things like pedalboard replacement and might be streamlined without multi-instance support. “Gig Performer Ensemble” would have multiple tracks like a DAW that would support multiple cores. Each track would support independent selection of rackspaces and variations. There would be a single “conductor” that supports Setlists and Songs. No need for loopback or multiple instances as this would be built in. Oh, and Ensemble would be able to import Gigs from Solo, so it can aggregate setups from the various band members.

But I digress. I’ve basically created my own system with independent instances for each “player”, and I love the architecture, but I need some sort of a loopback to get audio from one instance to the next.

Back to the original question, is Rogue Amoeba Loopback viable? If not, my tests show that RME hardware can handle it, but at a cost and with another external box.

When you are on Mac you could try Blackhole

PROBLEM SOLVED.

The issue I was having with Rogue Amoeba Loopback wasn’t due to performance, latency, buffer sizes, or thread priority; the problem was the lack of synchronization. As it would drift with respect to the audio interface, Gig Performer would be forced to wait for samples or skip ahead. In a non-real time recording, you might get one source to drift later and later. In a live setup, we get clicks and pops as things resynchronize.

THE SOLUTION: Create an aggregate device in Audio MIDI Setup that includes the audio interface (with its stable clock) and Loopback, then enable Drift Compensation on Loopback. Now, I can run 64 sample buffers in Gig Performer without artifacts. This results in a round trip of 256 samples, plus overhead, when bringing audio into the interface, through one Loopback, and back out of the interface. It’s rock solid and the latency is 100% acceptable to my ears.

(BTW, thanks for the Blackhole recommendation. When googling about the product and its latency, I stumbled upon an article about Drift Compensation, and the light bulb turned on.)

Now, I can highly recommend Loopback for use with multiple instances of Gig Performer on a Mac.

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Caution: Rogue Amoeba Loopback latest version 2.4 from yesterday is not working properly on my MacBook M1 Sonoma 14.5. On the one hand, the latency is noticeably high, and on the other hand, GP5 only works sporadically with loopback, at least never the first time, no matter which GigFile I load. I installed the old 2.3 version and now everything works as before.

Did you contact the developer?

Not yet. For me it is difficult to describe the error. In terms of latency, however, it is clear, but I am afraid that I will have to try out a lot with the support. I had to do that once with Martinic and the AX73. Shortly before our “summer tour” with several gigs in a row, I don’t really want to try anything. Loopback updated itself automatically. I turned that off. I suspect that it has something to do with the RogueAmoeba ACE driver that was installed with Loopback 2.4.

You should contact them. Paul is very responsive

I just did that and will report back on the answer. pianopaul wrote that you can work with a MacBook and GigPerformer without loopback, but I’ve never managed to do that satisfactorily, partly because I use several different audio interfaces.

What exactly are you trying to do?

I have a master keyboard (Roland Fantom 06), a MacBook M1 and Gigperformer 5 and I want to get my sound from the respective audio interface, whether I’m at home, in the rehearsal room or wherever. Except for the MacBook, I have multiple copies of everything, so another Roland Fantom in the rehearsal room, a REM Babyface and a UA Volt at home, and a KeryLargo in the rehearsal room, which I also use live. I want everything to always work without me having to adjust anything on the laptop. So far I’ve only managed that with loopback.

The RogueAmoebe Support is very friendly, but they haven’t found the bug in Loopback 2.4/GigPerformer5 yet. Until then they provided me with an old 2.3 version, which works. They want to keep me updated.