Is it possible to layer two or more racks together? I’m still learning my way through MIDI, so I’ll explain what I’m trying to achieve.
In Cantabile, using an FCB1010, I have seven instruments each assigned to a different PC button. These are all running within the same plugin: Pianoteq. I then have another instrument running within a second instance of Pianoteq, it is assigned to its own PC button as an on/off switch function. This way I can call up any one of my 7 main instruments and then choose to overlay my separate instrument on top of it with the on/off PC button.
I know this must be easily doable in GP, but with the rack system I’m not sure what the best way to do it might be. Ideally I would like to have several instruments that could be layered (on/off) with any of my main instrument racks. I know I can add multiple instruments to a single rack, but then I’m not sure what the best way to turn them on/off might be, and if I could keep the same MIDI message to consistently turn on/off each instrument across all my racks.
Numerous ways to do this but the easiest way to do it is with the use of a simple GP Script that responds to the position of a knob and sends the appropriate preset request into Pianoteq. You would then just create multiple variations of the rackspace with the knob set to a different preset on each variation. You could then have a second instance of Pianoteq in the same rackspace that’s basically on as needed.
I just created a script to do this and made a video of it so you can see what I mean.
Here’s a brief video showing it working.
Attached also is a simple gigfile with the rackspace that does this. Note - I’m using Pianoteq 6 in this rackspace.
I’m not really looking to replicate the way Cantabile works though – I was just referencing it to try to explain what I was trying to achieve by layering plugins. When switching between variations there’s no way to keep ‘patch persist’ working right? That’s my reason for using GP.
I’m fine with setting up a seperate rackspace for each instrument, but wondering if it’s possible to somehow layer more than one rackspace, basically running two at once.
Or maybe I missed what you were trying to explain… was the idea that you would then duplicate this rack with all its variations, and then insert a separate main instrument into each rack, and then have the ability to turn on/off the secondary instrument of your choice (based on this script-knob you wrote)? If that’s the idea, then patch persist not working on variations wouldn’t be a huge issue (though it would be nice to still have), but how would I assign a physical MIDI button to select one of the knob positions? Sorry, again my MIDI knowledge is limited.
If you have one plugin (say) that you always want to be available, then simply create a separate Gig Performer instance with a single rackspace for that plugin (and any effects you need for it). Sometimes people do something like that so that they can dedicate a controller to be a “hammond” organ, for example, while still being able to switch from one rackspace to another in your primary instance, keeping Patch Persist available.
I don’t understand this question. What do you want that “knob” to do?
Ah multiple instances of GP. Is there a special way to load another instance of GP? When I attempt it, it won’t load.
Don’t worry about the other question, I was just asking how I would assign a physical button to one of the knob positions on the knob you made, so I could, say, call up a specific instrument (knob position) with a specific button on my FCB1010.
You wouldn’t — you would use your FCB to switch variations using either program changes, up/down, or Direct Access where you put the same CC number on multiple pedals but use different values (0,1,2,3,4, for example) to directly switch to a variation.
Okay I’ve enabled multi-instance support and have a new instance, but for some reason it’s not seeing any MIDI messages… I double checked the Global MIDI Settings and have it accepting messages from any device (that was off by default), still nothing going through.
As a side, is there a way to permanently associate a specific other instance with a GP file (gig)? It would be nice to load up my gig and have the second instance automatically load up too.
Instances are named and have completely separate set of settings. This means that last loaded gig onto that particular instance will load automatically when you open that instance.
Instances cannot be loaded automatically - you have to click on the menu .
What kind of messages are you sending to it? We deliberately disable PC messages and OSC ports are different so that each instance can have a separate setup.
Other than that - any midi message that the first instance receives should be seen by the second one.
No MIDI messages seem to be working (note on/off for example). If I close the first instance, turn off my MIDI keyboard and turn it back on, then it works, but I can’t seem to get both instances to work at once.
However I’ve already tried ASIO4ALL and had the same problem. I could easily be overlooking something obvious… not sure. Is there perhaps a setting in ASIO4ALL that would make it work with multiple instances of GP?
On windows things are a bit different when it comes to multiple instances. MIDI typically cannot directly be used from multiple applications. Audio can in modern drivers and interfaces, but you have to make sure that ANY application using the driver has the same sample rate.
There is a new windows 10 implementation which is trying to fix some of these issues, but this is still in very early stages and would most likely break many older windows systems.
People have been using tools like loopBe midi and so on on Windows to try to overcomes problems with multiple applications and midi
Wow that’s too bad… sounds like a mess. Thanks for the info.
I wonder if GP could in the future have a feature where instead of (or in addition to) multiple instances, multiple gigs could be run simultaneously – but still working in a similar way to multiple instances. Perhaps that could bypass this Windows mess? And perhaps that would make it easy to allow multiple gigs to be permanently associated (chained together?) so that opening the main gig would auto load the associated gigs too?
So theoretically I should be able to run multiple instances of GP, connected with LoopBe1 (same as LoopBe MIDI??) and simultaneously run Reaper, connected by VirtualMIDI – and that all should allow me to layer racks with persistence and record MIDI performances all at once? I’ll see if I can get this to work…
After a long time fumbling around I finally got LoopBe1 to work (for some reason GP wasn’t changing my MIDI input within the rackspace when I changed global MIDI settings, I had to change out the inputs in the rackspace directly, unlike changing the audio output… likely there’s a good reason for this that I don’t understand).
I couldn’t get it to work with ASIO4ALL, I think because it kept loading separate instances of ASIO4ALL but only one would work at a time. I must have been missing something with that.
I did get it working with my terrible latency device though. I might have to order a good ASIO low latency internal soundcard – I have an external ASIO sound card (Emu) but the latency isn’t great (because of USB??).
I don’t know anything about your specific sound card but USB itself is most certainly not an issue, at least not modern USB 2. I would not trust any internal sound card though.
A decent audio interface (with decent drivers) makes a huge difference. I don’t know what is your use case but if you’re performing, then a decent external interface is worth the investment both for sound quality and low latency.
Oh that’s funny, I’ve read a good PCIe sound card (with ASIO) would have lower latency than a USB device. I’ve got an E-mu 0404 (USB 2 I think) that gives slightly worse latency than using ASIO4ALL, so typically I just use ASIO4ALL. The 0404 isn’t bad, but it’s noticeable (not nearly as bad as using my built-in motherboard device).
Again, I can’t really advise you without knowing what you’re planning to do but to put things in perspective, decent audio interfaces with which I’d be willing to tour start around $500 or so…the new Presonus Quantum is very good, for example.
The one I currently use on tour is from RME and sells for over $2k. They are famous for the high quality sound and low latency of their drivers.
I don’t believe there’s any way you’re going to get decent performance from a Soundblaster card that sells for $50
Oh yes I’ve heard good things about RME, one of their PCIe cards was mentioned in a recommendation. I like the idea of an internal card, less to set up, fewer cords, particularly if there’s a latency improvement (but maybe that’s not necessarily true). If there’s some basic reason why they can’t perform as well as an external sound card, I’d certainly consider upgrading what I’ve got.
I’m not doing any heavy touring. I’m actually a classical composer and pianist, primarily of acoustic music, but I’ve been working my way into mixing electronics in with acoustic (classical) instruments. The PA systems I’ve encountered are not audiophile grade by any means, mainly just way over powered (for my needs), so my focus has been on getting the MIDI kinks out first. Eventually I’ll look into the speaker end – in talking to one engineer I was told a very clean PA system that would fit my needs would be around $10k minimum. So I have been performing here and there with an electronic setup, but it’s very much a work in progress for me. I still have far more experience with acoustic music than with electronic music, hence why I have so much to learn still about MIDI.
