Latency - to old, to much or wrong equipment?

Yesterday we had a rehearsal with our band.

My configuration in GP4 is

Audio Device Type: Kronos
Device: Radial USB 2

The Korg Kronos is connected with my MacBook Pro (late 2013) via USB, the MacBook is connected with the Radial Key Largo, also via USB.

The Radial Key Largo goes into the Mixer (Midas M32), from this Mixer I get the InEar Monitor Signal in a Behringer Powerplay P1.

When I play with VSTs it seems to be okay, but some Korg Kronos Sounds had latency in my InEars, for example a percussive E-Piano-Sounds.

In a rehearsal yesterday it was not possible to test this and solve the problem.

Now I ask myself, what could be the reason

the Audio-Interface of the Kronos
the MacBook (to slow)
the Effect-Vsts in Global Rackspace. because they have to process the Audio-Signal of the Kronos
the Radial KeyLargo
the signal to the Mixer and back to my InEars?

Ideas?

Why do you not connect the Kronos via Analog Out to your Key Largo?
What are your Interface Audio settings of the Key Largo, Samplerate and Buffer Size?
And be aware that you have double latency when you go into GP with audio and go out with audio.

The sound engineer says, it is noisy (in deutsch: deutliches Rauschen kommt beim Mischpult an).
Another reason is, that I can process my Kronos Sounds with Effects and mixing tools in the global rackspace.

48000 Hz
512 samples (10.7 ms)

Yes you are right. Could it help to buy a new MacBook with much more power?

512 Samples is much too high when you play the Kronos and Audio goes in, then processed and goes out again.
So at minimum you have a latency of 21.4 ms + latency coming from plugins.

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Regarding latency: a newer mac book will not help as the latency comes from your settings of the audio interface.
But the more CPU power you have the lower the sample buffer can be.

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Thank you, that can help.

Until now I have not changed the settings, so I will try 256 Samples next rehearsal.

And probably next year I will buy a MacBook Pro M1. Because of Corona HomeOffice is required, so I can save taxes, when I buy a laptop. :wink:

Try to go as low as your computer will allow you without using more than say 30-40% of the CPU (displayed in GP).

Some plugins are very lightweight and some people run GP with 32 or even 16 sample buffer.
Going from 512 to 256 or, if possible, to 128 will make a HUGE difference.

I think Kronos is the weak link. It has no USB audio driver from Korg. You probably use it with ASIO4ALL. Can you try a good audio board with your Mac before buying a new one?

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On MacOS I have never installed an audio driver…!?

On my windows PC it is not possible to use the Korg Kronos with GP 4 in this way. The Kronos is not shown as “Audio device type”. Here I connect the Kronos via Analog Out to my audio Interface. That is no problem.

For RME-Audio-Interface I always installed a driver on MacOS

On Mac, the Key-Largo is plug and play. For Kronos there is a KORG USB MIDI Driver for Mac, but I think, in my case there is no midi-problem.

Probably pianopaul is right: Kronos and Audio goes in my MacBook, then gets processed and goes out again, so that the minimum latency is 21.4 ms (10.7 + 10.7).

@SirTommes , that’s because Korg has never produced an ASIO driver for the Kronos interface.

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I own a Kronos and I would NOT use the Kronos audio interface. IMHO, it is a second-class audio interface at best. For my Kronos (2011), I’ve also found that using Midi over USB will sometimes lock up the Kronos, so I have switched to using a MOTU Micro-lite and actual midi cables to the Kronos for stability. Those types of lockups have completely been eliminated by this approach.

I have however been shocked at how well the audio interface built into a Roland FA seems to work really well with GP with my old MacBook Pro 2013. I’ve been building some simpler gigs for bread and butter type sounds to use just the FA and GP, removing the need for all my other gear for simple gigs.

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This was my idea with just the Kronos and GP…
But with Midi over USB I have no problem (Kronos 2), no “lockups”.

I’m still using a Windows PC with my current GP rig with the Kronos, so it could also be a difference in the drivers for the platform. Either way, it is way more stable this way.

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Could you use the Kronos as Audio-interface in your Windows configuration, if you want?

The answer is technically ‘yes’, however neither of the two options available to do so is something I’d use in a live, mission critical situation. 1) use as a standard windows audio device - this option would have absolutely horrible latency and be unusable from a time standpoint or 2) use ASIO4ALL as a wrapper to the windows audio interface to improve latency - I am not, and have never been a fan of ASIO4ALL. In my limited experiences with it, it has been somewhat unstable. I don’t feel I can trust it.

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Okay, I understand.

With my windows PC at home I can’t use the Kronos as a standard windows audio device with GP, I have no option in the Audio setup to choose the Kronos.

Does it show up as an audio device in Windows device manager?

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Yes, KORG KRONOS (as KORG KRONOS) and KRONOS (as USB-Audio-Device).