Who else is using a Fishman Triple Play here?

[amor]

FTP is a wonderful device and I am thankful for its creation. But it does have it’s own challenges. It doesn’t help that much of it’s implementation is undocumented officially. Thankfully the folks at V-Guitar forums have been a great resource.

How many other guitarists are trying to use FTP with GigPerformer? I find that I sometimes have unique issues that keyboard players just don’t have and don’t understand why I even have to ask. So I would love to know if there are others here that I can bounce stuff of of.

Thanks!

[thunderfingers]

Yep, I use Fishman Tripleplay in my cover band. I use gigperformer for synth and Apple mainstage w guitar rig for guitar emulation. Here is my setup from last June-

With gigperformer’s new setlist function, I have now eliminated the use of Tripleplay software during shows and operate in the hardware mode.

[amor]

@thunderfingers. Thanks for responding. I saw your video before and I think you’ve done a nice job with your setup. So your 100% wireless, right?

How do you like the Guitar Wing? I have seriously considered getting one in the past. Is it your only controller? Do you use the slider strips for expression control? Have you ever had any issues with interference or intermittency?

Playing an FTP equipped Stratocaster with (I assume) a floating bridge, what’s your strategy if you break a string? Do you move the FTP and Guitar wing to a back up guitar? Have a second guitar outfitted with another set of FTP & Guitar Wings? Or do you have the bridge locked down so that your other strings don’t slip out of tune?

[thunderfingers]

See my answers within your quoted text.

@amor

Thanks for responding. I saw your video before and I think you’ve done a nice job with your setup. So your 100% wireless, right? All wireless with guitar wireless, guitar wing wireless, Tripleplay wireless and in-ear monitor wireless. Also no pedals!

How do you like the Guitar Wing? Yes. It works reliable but the sensitivity of the slider surface is a bit inconsistent.

I have seriously considered getting one in the past. Is it your only controller?

Yes.

Do you use the slider strips for expression control? No. The sliders are also a touch switch that I try to use for tap tempo, but I I’m not comfortable that it is reading reliably.

Have you ever had any issues with interference or intermittency? None.

Playing an FTP equipped Stratocaster with (I assume) a floating bridge, what’s your strategy if you break a string? Do you move the FTP and Guitar wing to a back up guitar? Have a second guitar outfitted with another set of FTP & Guitar Wings? Or do you have the bridge locked down so that your other strings don’t slip out of tune?

Since I determined the heaviest pick I can use To avoid breaking strings- it only happens once in 30 shows. If that happens I have straplocks that allow me to switch guitars rapidly. The other guitar has an external Tripleplay that was partially embedded and a second guitar wing.

My guitar wireless and in-ear are on the guitar strap. All that stuff is heavy and caused back issue day after gig. I shortened my strap, got a padded strap, changed to lighter titanium bridge and had the tech do the “swimming pool” cut out under the pick guard. All that helped.

The video I put out shows what is now my backup system. My new system is essentially the same hardware except I upgraded my in ear to Shure PSM 300- which the additional clarity has made a huge difference in my performance.

I also have a Behringer XR18 mixer and a light controller in the rack. Essentially it’s the band’s pa with my stuff already connected.

[thunderfingers]

This is my current rig. There is a 5ghz wireless router for the xr18. I use 2 MacBook pros. One with the behringer um404 for guitar (mainstage/guitar rig) and guitar synth (gigperformer) then the other uses gigperforner with the xr 18 to process vocals and record 18 tracks.

BTW - I said no dropouts on my wireless- that pertains only to guitar wing. Tripleplay gave me lots of problem until I discovered turning off Bluetooth and Wi-Fi on my phones and computers has almost completely solved it.

[amor]

So that must mean that you use the bluetooth dongle(s) for the guitar wing(s) instead of the Mac’s built in Bluetooth? And that improved the FTP’s reliability? That’s good to know (I just ordered the GW today )

Did you ever have an issue with your FTP dongle transmitting duplicate data on both the FTP-Guitar and FTP-Control inputs? I just realized this was happening (I’m a recent convert from the Roland 13-pin camp). In the shot of your GP rack space in the video, it looks like you are using the FTP-Guitar device for your MIDI input block. Is that true? Any disadvantages to using one over the other?

I definitely see the need for 2 Macs. Eventually I’ll move to s virtual guitar rig, but right now I’m only using my MBPro for FTP/GP synthesis and running tracks occasionally. I am using a Helix for my guitar rig and audio interface. The MBP just can’t handle trying to do both simultaneously. Besides, if the Mac ever crashes, I still have guitar sounds to get through the song. (GP has crashed in performance twice in recent weeks, despite having fully tested my gig file the previous days - tho these are the first times that has happened).

[thunderfingers]

I must say I am thrilled to be able to share this stuff. Thanks for your interest.

@amor

So that must mean that you use the bluetooth dongle(s) for the guitar wing(s) instead of the Mac’s built in wireless?

Yes. I have the guitar wing software that sets the midi codes in my startup file and click the connect button which seeks the guitar wing.

And that improved the FTP’s reliability? That’s good to know (I just ordered the GW today )

It is my belief that the Mac built in Bluetooth and Wi-Fi cause problems w ftp wireless connections. I also believe that my phone in my pocket inches away from those devices causes problems. I turn off my phone Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

Did you ever have an issue with your FTP dongle transmitting duplicate data on both the FTP-Guitar and FTP-Control inputs?

That’s what it does. You are supposed to use the guitar port. I do not use the Omni input on gigperformer and that is one reason.

I just realized this was happening (I’m a recent convert from the Roland 13-pin camp).
I still have my gr33 and a strat w 13 pin.

In the shot of your GP rack space in the video, it looks like you are using the FTP-Guitar device for your MIDI input block. Is that true? Any disadvantages to using one over the other?

Fishman recommends you use the midi guitar port rather than the midi control port.

Btw- I use the guitar wing for control rather than as an instrument you play which is what they had in mind.

I’ve developed a gpscript to sync the guitar wing to the rackspace widgets in gigperformer. I also use midipipe to connect midi between gigperformer, mainstage, guitar wing and lighting controller. I have plans to update and there is a bug, but I’m glad to share if you are interested.

I have recently improved the reliability of my system and I think some is due to the elmination of the tripleplay software and using tripleplay in the hardware mode.

[amor]

@thunderfingers How kind of you to offer! I’d be honored. Thanks for all your help and informative answers!

Since I have never used the GW before, may I ask what you mean by “sync the guitar wing to the rackspace widgets in gigperformer”?

I intend to use the GW for cc controls as well, maybe also to start stop tracks in the audio player. I’ve not had any FTP dropouts so far…

[thunderfingers]

may I ask what you mean by “sync the guitar wing to the rackspace widgets in Gigperformer?”

For example, I have a boost button on my gigperformer rackspace that essentially is a bypass for a gigperformer gain block set to -4.5db. On the rackspace front panel the bypass is linked to a red light. When I click the red light with the mouse, and it turns on, the gain reduction is bypassed. Click again the light goes off and the -4.5 db gain block is in effect.

That’s how it works with just gigperformer. Now I want the same function w guitar wing so I program a button on guitar wing to be red when on and dark when off. I decide what cc code makes sense then have the gigperformer red light widget learn that code. No script needed for that part.

But some rackspaces and some variations need to turn in boost when you switch to it. On Shut Up And Dance, I play a synth sound at normal volume until the solo comes up which is a different rackspace because it glides from note to note. When I change to that patch, I need gigperformer to send a signal to guitar wing that boost is on and to set the light to red. So I wrote a gpscript that fires on rackspace activation, change of variation and change of widget to keep the guitar wing light and logic synced with my patch change.

Also a button on ge to control a fader from guitar to synth, both, alternate patches.

I have a dial in my rackspaces for 10 guitar patch presets and 10 dmx light scenes. These are all read and transmitted when I change rackspaces or variations.

One bug I have is if I start in the blend mode, then turn it off, it should go to guitar only or synth only depending on what it was before I Went to both. It’s not always doing what I want. I need to test it to see exactly where I am at and the fix it.

[thunderfingers]

Btw- I used guitar wing to trigger the gigperformer audio player. I just used one of the slider strips which has a key switch as well as the variable fader. We did Thriller for our Halloween show and it triggered my edit of Vincent Prices monologue. I found his monologue as an isolated track, so it was pretty fun!

[thunderfingers]

Did you get the Guitar Wing? How is it going?

[amor]

Hi @thunderfingers. Yes the Guitar wing has been great! Thank you for recommending it. The first one I received was defective and I sent it back, but the replacement has been awesome. The relatively short battery life makes me nervous and I hate having to pair it every time I need to use it. The FTP is much more robust and elegant in both regards. But I am coming to love not having to look down to try to find the right pedal to step on. I am typically singing, directing a choir and band simultaneously, so having the control right on the guitar has been fantastic. So thank you again!

Sounds like you are sending commands to alter the state of the guitar wing from GP. Is that accurate? Are you doing this with the FTP pick up as well, say to change from pick to fingerpicking mode or to toggle mono & poly modes? Speaking of which… now that you can go back and forth between mono & poly modes in hardware patch mode, are you using fretboard splits? This seems like it could be really powerful when combined with GP’s song parts feature.

Our church just purchased a Midas M32 digital mixer for FoH. I am thinking about way in which I can expand implementation of my gear. So I have been wondering about your rig and would love a more comprehensive understanding of the ways in which you are using these technologies. You said that you are running GP for your synths, but using MainStage for your guitar sounds. But did you mention running another instance of GP for your vocalists?! Controlling your digital mixer too? As well as lighting cues? I am curious about this. Are you using MIDI pipe to get the two laptops to communicate with one another? if not, what protocol are you using to sync them?

Thanks!

[thunderfingers]

@amor

Hi @thunderfingers. Yes the Guitar wing has been great! Thank you for recommending it. The first one I received was defective and I sent it back, but the replacement has been awesome. The relatively short battery life makes me nervous and I hate having to pair it every time I need to use it.

I turn the wing on before I login to the computer. I have the Livid going editor in my startup file and click the “connect” button and choose the wing. I never lose connection on gw except if I get to far away and it reconnects instantly when I get back in range. Not so lucky w triple play. I get 5 hours or so from GW but I don’t have lights on most of the time.

I pair the triple play every gig often I have to re-pair during the gig. I play one gig in a shopping mall where there are over a dozen wifi, plus a guitar and mic wireless on 2.4 ghz. I discovered turning off wifi and bluetooth on my phone (inches from triple play controller) and on my computers makes it better.

The FTP is much more robust and elegant in both regards. But I am coming to love not having to look down to try to find the right pedal to step on. I am typically singing, directing a choir and band simultaneously, so having the control right on the guitar has been fantastic. So thank you again!

Singing and playing is why I made one of my buttons act as an “alternate” button that toggles between 2 sounds such as for verse and chorus. I can’t think if its up or down while singing.

**Sounds like you are sending commands to alter the state of the guitar wing from GP. Is that accurate? **
Yes, I do that through GPscript but some can be done using gig performer’s widget “sync” property.

Are you doing this with the FTP pick up as well, say to change from pick to fingerpicking mode or to toggle mono & poly modes? Speaking of which… now that you can go back and forth between mono & poly modes in hardware patch mode, are you using fretboard splits? This seems like it could be really powerful when combined with GP’s song parts feature.

Always use mono mode. I use Gigperformer to change hardware setting in Tripleplay with each patch.I plan to standardize to 4 triple play hardware patches for most songs but they are all song specific right now. I’ll still need extras for splits and some other things. Setting the triple play hardware patch sets the pitch mode, dynamic range, touch sensitivity. Poly mode has no advantage except for using less system resources but since I am using the predictive loading, its not a big deal.

i do fretboard splits in triple play (midi 1-6 vs 11-16) plus string splits within sample tank. For example, I play and sing “Sweet Caroline” My 6th string is an organ, 5th trombone, 4th horn section - until you get above the 14th fret where it’s all strings (Hands, touching hands, reaching out …)The whole song 4 instruments- no patch change!

Our church just purchased a Midas M32 digital mixer for FoH. I am thinking about way in which I can expand implementation of my gear. So I have been wondering about your rig and would love a more comprehensive understanding of the ways in which you are using these technologies. You said that you are running GP for your synths, but using MainStage for your guitar sounds. But did you mention running another instance of GP for your vocalists?! Controlling your digital mixer too? As well as lighting cues? I am curious about this. Are you using MIDI pipe to get the two laptops to communicate with one another? if not, what protocol are you using to sync them?

I tried to run everything on my 2012 MacBook pro quad core i7 but even with the added laptop cooler fan, it may have overheated. It was two instances of gigperformer (1)synth w midi light control, 2) vocal processing with recording 18 channels) plus MainStage and midi pipe that was routing signals everywhere.

I’m currently using 2 laptops. One runs synth, lights, guitar processing and send signals to the other laptop that records 18 channels and autotunes vocals. If the synth computer goes south, I can use the one that otherwise processes vocals and records the show.

I’ve had lots of tech problems but it actually starting to work pretty well. Now most of my problems are I’m hitting the wrong button at the wrong time. In other words- user error.

I currently use only the setlist mode. Here are screen shots. Note on my back panel all the midi out. BacktoGP was named because I was going to send program changes to a second instance of Gigperformer but when it crashes, both instances need to restart so I use MainStage.

L1 goes to the midi of my Behringer 404 interface and thats where you could send mixer program changes to go to different saved snapshots in your midas m32. I use it to send through my behringer xr18 and then from their through usb to the 2nd laptop. All that stuff is on midi 1 or 2. I split the output of the behringer 404 to also go to the midi input of a dmx lighting controller which responds only to channel 9.

I also have a midi out to send program changes to triple play and another to send signals to GW. It resets the buttons.

[guitarman]

Hello,
I saw the information you shared with amor with interest and am amazed how TriplePlay can benefit from Gig Performer. I just started to put together this setup but ran into a problem:

When I have TriplePlay as a standalone (I mean outside Gig performer) I use Softstep2 (a foot midi controller) to send cc messages to change hardware patches etc… to FTP without problems.

But once I send the same messages to FTP installed in Gig performer, I can not make these messages work, whatever I do with the midi routing.

I suspect this is because softstep2 is not a vst plugin. In your explanations you were writing to amor that you did something with GP script to make the Guitar Wing work? Do you think I would have to do the same?

Also, I saw that you use the FishmanTP FC-1 midi controller. Would using this device allow me to control the hold function and patch changes? What do you use it for?

Thanks to Amor and you for putting this wealth of info available.

Best regards,
Hein

[djogon]

@guitarman

I use Softstep2 (a foot midi controller) to send cc messages to change hardware patches etc… to FTP without problems.

This should work without issues unless you are not using CC messages but for example PC messages in which case something else needs to be done

If you are using CC messages - they should come through just fine, but obviously you have to connect your MIDI in block to the TriplePlay plugin.

[guitarman]

Thanks Djogon,
I have the midi in block connected to the triple play plugin.
I think the problem is with the routing going out from my Softstep2 midi controller.
When I setup the FTP as a standalone (outside Gig Performer) I see the midi message lightning up in the midi in of my RME audio interface but when I install FTP plugin inside Gigperformer the same message does not lightup.
It seems like gig performer does not allow it in?
Hein

[djogon]

Hmmm. What happens if you open the MIDI Monitor window in GP and then press your SoftStep buttons?

Btw… I use SoftStep occasionally and it works just fine with GP …

[guitarman]

I get from midi monitoring. But when I go in Gig performer to options and use in Global midi the learn tab it accepts any cc message coming in.

[guitarman]

.Sorry, I meant I get nothing in midi monitoring. What I noticed now with Softstep2 is that when I use it in standalone mode, cc messages are entering, at least in the preferences Global midi tab.

[djogon]

If you learn a particular CC message in the GLOBAL midi options or a widget - that message is “consumed” and will not be propagated to the plugin. Make sure that the message you are trying to use is not already configured to be used elsewhere.

Window -> Show MIDI Assignments