What orchestral products to use?

I need some advice – I’m preparing for a theatrical version of The Wall next summer and I have to create the orchestral material. I’ve been looking at the offerings from Spitfire and struggling to distinguish among them.

Albion ONE seems to be very popular but there’s also a sale on CLASSIC bundle which includes Studio Strings/Brass/Woodwinds/Solo Strings and a few others. How much do these overlap what comes with Albion ONE? Do I need both? Are there other recommendations? Note that I would like to stay with something that uses Kontakt 6 (not the buggy 7) rather than having to work with yet another proprietary plugin.

Thanks in advance

(FYI this is a duplicate of a post I made on a VST site on FB in case anybody wonders why they see this twice)

I have their BBC Symphony Orchestra collection and find that to be really good as you can get a drier sound that allows you to add reverb as needed rather than having to work with what is inherent in the samples.

The Abbey Road Orchestra is reported to be excellent amongst Spitfire customers too. Albion has always been the flagship product but, IMHO, has been surpassed by BBC SO and Abbey Road.

Whilst these are pop productions, I used BBC SO on these two:

(orchestral outro from 3:54)

For a more intimate smaller string ensemble, I can highly recommend their British Drama Toolkit… the bowed strings are especially good with very convincing periodic changes in bow direction. I used the bowed cello on this video:

Whilst these are using the newer proprietary plugin, I do find it worth working with it.

To stick with Kontakt, I would also highly recommend 8DIO’s Adagietto for strings (currently on sale):

I was very impressed with the sound of BBC Orchestra Core. Which reminds me, I need to get to setting up some orchestra/string ensemble templates as favorites so I can use it more. Not Kontakt, but their plugin seems pretty intuitive. Then again anything is intuitive vs Kontakt :rofl:

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David, I would dig into the V Control forum. They are heavy users of orchestral libraries (primarily in DAWs for various projects, like tv, commercials, corporate videos, film, I think).

Of course, while doing that, you should be very aware of your use case. You need libraries that work well in real time live, as opposed or programming articulations, etc.

I think the trend in all sample libraries has been to make them more usable in real time. But, while you are doing your research, be aware that you are using these libraries a bit different than their primary users. (Sorry, you know all this, but…)

Jeff

I like Atelier Barker Clarinet for solo (monophonic) legato clarinet lines (I use it Scenes from an Italian Restaurant). (from Music Sampling)

I have a NI Komplete Ultimate version, and I am anlready impressed by their Strings, Brass et orchestral instruments.

Guy Michelmore, could be a guy to contact to have the best advice about orchestral plugin collections…

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Komplete (Normal) or Ultimate? The Ultimate has the ‘dedicated for orchestra’ Symphony Essentials bundle.

I’m having the normal version and like the Session Strings / Session Horns as well, but it seems Sympthony Essentials is much more versatile (so thinking about upgrading to Ultimate in a few years).

Also I bought for very cheap IK Multimedia Philharmonik 2 (and 1) inside another bundle which for me is ok too (but I can imagine there are better bundles, especially if price is less an issue).

FWIW worth I tend to think there are better options than Komplete. My impression is Spitfire definitely has an excellent reputation. But, there are many great small orchestral sample library developers.

Yes, the details of the different types of articulations can get pretty involved (I sort of scroll the V Control forums in semi-ignorance like I do here, hah!).

Let us know what you do.

My recommendation would be Project Sam Orchestral Essentials.
I find it highly playable by keyboards in a live situation. Other libraries tend to be perfect for scoring only, which would require sequencer playback or ten hands on stage.
Blended with some NI Kontakt 6 Library instruments I can do all my orchestral tunes on stage.

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I finally bit the bullet on a complete (no pun intended) orchestral package: The Orchestra Complete v3 from Sonuscore. It’s a Kontakt instrument with NKI support, and is just stunning. I bought it on a good Black Friday promotion, but it is still under 500 €. Really well integrated and worth checking out, IMO.

The Orchestra Compete 3

This video is for preset playthroughs. It’s worth the listen.

There are three other videos on that web page, plus a bunch of song samples.

Just to be complete: There is also Vienna Sound Library (vsl). That doesn’t come cheap and I’m not sure whether it’s excellent or excellent overpriced. All I know these folks eat and drink classic performances. I’ve some of the libraries and they sound good, but I’m lacking a lifetime to get fully into it.

Apart from their products they’ve also lots of documentation about all articulations and their limitations (in the physical world anyway), what are good classic matches and bad ones (trumpets and violins most of the time, for example), etc. Depending on whether you want to become an expert on the subject or not, you can spend lots of time overthere :slightly_smiling_face:

If you want some solo, exposed instruments on top of the ensembles, check out the SWAM instruments from Audio Modeling. They also have a new String Ensembles product, though I haven’t yet tried it.

Virtual orchestral productions are almost always offline efforts. To get expressive results with samples, we often need to keyswitch to different articulations, select samples with different vibrato, and shape the sound with the mod wheel. If you have an effect, like a stab or a fall, don’t overuse it, or you can hear the sample repeat. On the other hand, if you use synthesis, you can perform every note uniquely, and get dynamic vibrato and attacks, rather than whatever is baked in.

To really get it to sing, use a breath controller.

A sample library is better for people who input notes with a mouse. Synthesis is best for performers. When I was doing a lot of sound for pictures, I only had sample libraries and used both techniques.

For live, I like playing SWAM instruments with the breath controller. Doing that with a solo instrument over a prerecorded backing track of the ensembles could be good, practical approach for The Wall. (I saw it live in LA. The orchestral parts were all prerecorded.)

Another trick is to use scripting to create auto harmonies or dynamic keyboard splits. Shaping all the voices of a harmony with one breath controller isn’t ideal, but it’s still effective.

Anyway, SWAM instruments can be a good investment for those times when you need a sax, trumpet, clarinet, or violin line and lack a live player. The mod wheel works, but a breath controller frees up the left hand and can be better showmanship.

This could probably help to answer this question:

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Thank you - this is very helpful!

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A hybrid approach might be the way to go. A sample library can cover the general ensemble. If you will play an expressive solo instrument live, consider a single instrument from Audio Modeling. For instance, the clarinet in Outside the Wall is exposed. With some sample libraries, clarinet can sound like an accordion, if the expression isn’t right.

I’ve got their flutes, horns, saxes, and solo strings (but not the other reed instruments.) They’re a blast to play in real time. My experience with samples is a bit out of date, but their weak spots were always the lyrical solo instruments.

Maybe the right approach is to get a full orchestra library, and if a solo instrument doesn’t cut it, just get the solo instruments you need.

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I think you really need to know what instruments are highlighted on The Wall album. I haven’t listened carefully to The Wall album in while, but orchestral percussion seems to be important in some progressive rock. (Bells? chimes?..).