USB-C Goals

Hardware
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For me, the ideal keyboard rig would have a rack/box with all of the “backstage” gear. There would be one USB-C cable to the laptop and another USB-C cable to the keyboard stand, and that’s it for the “on stage” gear. (Of course, the rack/box has power and audio connections too, but those are “backstage” connections.)

The stumbling block has been USB hubs. They generally need an additional brick and power cord (while power could be carried over USB-C) and few hubs have enough powered USB-C connections to enable daisy-chaining. Even with USB-A, you have to select your hubs carefully, and no way will USB-A carry enough power for a reasonable self-powered hub.

As we move toward a USB-C world, it would be nice to start building a USB-C infrastructure. I’m tired of having hubs where everything works - except that next device.

I might have finally found some hubs that would do the trick from Pluggable. They’ve got a few Thunderbolt 3 and 4 products that have powered connectors, including USB-C.

For the Rack, I want power to the hub with ~100W to the computer as well as a couple more powered USB-C connections (one to my backup hard drive and one to the keyboard stand), plus at least one more USB-A connector with enough power for the audio interface.

For the hub in the keyboard stand, I need to power an iPad (an extended monitor using Sidecar), two keyboards, as well as two more very low-power devices. Unpowered USB-A connectors are marginal for my keyboards, so I need at least three powered outputs, with the iPad being the only one with significant thirst.

I’m thinking of getting two TBT4-UDX1 hubs ($230 each.) Yeah, they’re overkill, but there is some logic in having two of the same type - I would need one spare to cover rack and stand, not two.

The bottom line is that it has two powered USB-C outputs (in addition to the host connector), so it can cover my hard drive and branch from the rack to the keyboard stand. Three powered outputs, plus three “normal” USB-A connectors cover my keyboard stand needs.

The only question is whether a Thunderbolt output from the Rack hub will allow the keyboard hub to run self-powered. I’ll order them and find out. If not, I’ll run a power cable as well, which would be disappointing, but not the end of the world. If that ends up being the case, I can go with a cheaper hub in the keyboard, and I’ll have a spare for the hub in the rack.

Also, i found some braided USB-C to USB-B cables in various lengths for a very low price through CableTime. Hopefully, they’re good.

One additional note about USB-C… It has much better tolerances that the old USB-A connectors. I have the sense that they are more reliable. And not having to check their orientation when connecting things in a dark location is nice indeed.

I’ll pop back in with the results in a week or so…

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Just my experience: USB-C is much more vulnerable when it comes to stress applied from the sides of the connector. The male connector is sturdy enough, but the female connector in the device (laptop, keyboard, etc.) is easily damaged (or getting ripped of the pcb it is soldered to).

USB-B is better in this regard, but its form factor is rather big, and it isn’t capable of doing more than 480mb.

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Oh man, I’ve been going nuts looking for a USB-C solution – thanks for posting this information

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I did some study of their products, based on USB connectors and power. Being on an M1 Mac and wanting to be future-proof, I focused on Thunderbolt. Here’s what I found…

$99.95 USD
SKU: TBT4-HUB3C
Power to computer: 60W
USB-C: 3, all powered, Thunderbolt 4
USB-A, 0.

$129.95 USD
SKU: USB4-HUB3A
Power to computer: 60W
USB-C: 3, all powered, Thunderbolt 4
USB-A, 1, nominal power.

$199.95 USD
SKU: TBT4-UD5
Power to computer: 100W
USB-C: 2 - 1 powered Thunderbolt 4
USB-A, 4, nominal power.

$229.95 USD
SKU: TBT4-UDX1
Power to computer: 96W
USB-C: 2 - 2 powered Thunderbolt 4
USB-A, 4, 1 powered, 3 with nominal power.

$299.95 USD
SKU: TBT-6950PD
Power to computer: 100W
USB-C: 3 - 3 powered Thunderbolt 4
USB-A, 2, nominal power.

Note that I have yet to try any of these. Ordering soon…

5

I might have a less expensive solution for my setup. The idea is to position the laptop with the keyboards.

The Rack/Box would have a StayGo hub and 100W power supply. I send one long USB-C cable from the host port to the laptop at the keyboard stand area. I then connect one USB-C cable to the keyboard hub - and hopefully it can provide enough juice to the hub to self-power it.

I need a hub that can accept USB-C, pass power to three ports, and that has at least two more nominal power ports. That’s still the $229 model.

I’ve already got a couple of StayGo hubs. I’ll get one $229 hub and test it. I’ll only need a spare if it works.

6

Here are some additional products that can help with connecting gear:

With USB-C PD, you can connect a USB power source to an old-school device, like an effects pedal:

They sell USB-C cables that include LCD displays that show PD compatibility and power consumption. It’s a short cable, so I’m just getting one for measurement sake:

The cable can be especially handy when deciding to power things from a computer port. If something takes less than 10w, I’m probably fine with using a computer port. At 20 or more watts, I probably don’t want that heat in the laptop I/O system 24/7.

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I’ve been studying USB and Thunderbolt further. Here’s a (simplistic) description:

USB-C (the protocol, not the connector) is like the earlier USB specs, in that there is a host and a client device. Previously, this was enforced by the connector. USB-A was for the host and USB-B, mini, or micro was for the client device. USB-C hubs just have one host connector. It can have a second USB-C connector for power, but not for data. An example USB-C dock is the StayGo, which is a fine dock, but it’s not what we need for minimizing cables to keyboard stands.

Thunderbolt 3 is great for storage devices and displays, but not ideal for hubs. You can have a USB-C connector to the host with high power, and another for daisy chaining USB-C connectors, plus four PCIE lanes. These allow the bandwidth to be allocated for high transfer speeds to the device, or for USB-3 ports depending on the design of the unit. The USB daisy chaining is good!

The reason this works is that a Thunderbolt device can be a host, client, or both. It’s not unidirectional like the USB protocol.

Thunderbolt 4 is ideal for hubs. We get up to four Thunderbolt ports (one for the host with high power) , plus more for USB-2 or -3 ports or functionally, like storage. That said, bandwidth for storage or displays is limited. We want Thunderbolt 4 hubs and Thunderbolt 3 displays and storage.

Thunderbolt 5 is like TB4 supercharged. It can provide more power to the host and more bandwidth. It’s overkill for keyboard setups, and the products are just now being launched.

Thunderbolt 4 is really the sweet spot for hubs and docks needed for clean USB-C keyboard setups. I listed products from Pluggable above, but in theory, any Thunderbolt 4 hub or dock should do the trick.

The wildcard is power. You need to get enough juice to your computer, as well as a data connection. In addition, the hub needs to provide adequate power to the keyboards and devices, possibly in a self powered mode. This depends on a few factors…

  • Does the host provide enough power to the hub?
  • Does the hub/dock pass on enough power in the self-power mode, and
  • How much power does the gear require?

If you don’t mind running an additional power cord (AC or DC) to the stand, self power is moot. But if you want that clean, single USB-C cable to the keyboard rig, all the numbers need to add up.

I get my first Thunderbolt 4 dock on Thursday. Hopefully, it will work as planned.

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Well, I’m disappointed. I bought the TBT4-UDX1, and it doesn’t self power whatsoever. Not only does this not allow a single USB power and data cable to the keyboard stand, but it won’t so much as support a mouse without A/C power.

Looks like I’ll be building a USB-C and Power Cable harness, unless I can find an appropriate product.