I went through all these thoughts during the 14 day trial period. The 14 days ran out and I still had some doubts BUT I could see the massive potential of both the software and the community. And that is what made me decide to go for it.
I knew that all I needed was time and here we are, doing things that are impossible to do in ANY other software out there. And especially on a 6 year old machine…
Never looking for anything else
I do understand this one, and it can be on a number of layers
First, it’s important to understand that complexity isn’t only with GP itself, but also with plugins. For someone who has a lot of experience using plugins the move can be not too difficult, but when someone compares using GP live with using “a pedal”, that’s a whole other issue.
So it all takes time and is indeed complex.
I personally hate plugins and only use them because I absolutely need to. I will happily dump them for hardware the moment I can (for playing, recording/editing/mixing is a totally different story). And I have used them a lot, and tried a lot of them, so have a fairly good idea about what I need. Imagine a person completely new to this world.
Then there’s the GP part. It is complex in that it’s very flexible. It’s a huge benefit (and the reason I’m using it, for the most part), but it has a flip side. Compare it to, say, Guitar Rig. You’ll see similar complaints about any product (including hardware) with flexible routing. Axe-FX, for example.
It was also incredibly confusing to me for a very long time (and in some parts it still is). I’m quite proficient in using DAWs, stuff like Komplete or Maschine, used Cantabile, S1 Show, easily set up playbacks, automation, software mixing for live shows, and out of all these products GP took me the most time to understand (some basic usage was ok). Part of it is related to flexibility, but another part is in very idiosyncratic terminology. Like, when I see the term “global”, I assume that it’s something that works/is available everywhere. So I saw “global parameters” and was like, hey, cool, that’s what I’ve been looking for in other products! Only to find out that in GP “global” isn’t global, but rather related to “global rackspace”. Maybe that’s just me, and maybe most people understand it easier, but it’s just an example that things can be counterintuitive and turn people off, adding to the impression of complexity.
The good news is that all of these challenges can be addressed, albeit not easily.
A way to overcome pluginophobia could maybe be a different pitch to some of the perspective users. Instead of pushing GP as a means to dump hardware for plugins could it be promoted as a companion automation tool? When I finally get back to hardware for playing, I’ll keep using GP most probably, it can complement hardware nicely, so there may be no need for radical “software or nothing” messaging?
The way to overcome the complexity related to flexibility is to improve sharability of other people’s patches, gigs etc. Currently it’s very difficult to reuse anything but whole gigs or rackspaces, which isn’t ideal because people have different sets of plugins. Scripts, some blocks like media player controls, are all very difficult to reuse or make reusable. This is where there’s lots of room for improvement.
The terminology I don’t know what to do with, but maybe someone smarter than me does. Maybe improved sharability can help here as well.
Not sure whether you need my opinion on these matters, but I decided I’d share anyway 
These insights are very important. Thank you
I don’t take this as an argument. It is complexity in either way!
It is as complex as you want it to be. The same goes with Keyboard Workstations and stuff such as Kemper - when I talked to their users, they wouldn’t know what the half of the knobs/buttons do. They use it to do some basic tone dialing and leave it there.
Therefore, it’s all about the needs. You can use use Gig Performer for the most basic setup - insert (say) a ML Sound LAB guitar plugin connect it with the outputs - voila - it works. I assume you can play 80% of the modern music with it. If you want loopers, pitch shifters, you add either hardware or software components – in either way – it is a new complexity. Name this approach whatever you like, hardware, software, hybrid → more things in the setup → more complexity.
→ BUT it is more convenient to simply lay back on the couch and configure everything in Gig Performer on your laptop.
At least this is what I do. I didn’t have this convenience when I dialed in my Digitech RP200. No way I could return to using hardware pedals.
–
You need to somehow understand which ones to use
Then you need to learn how to use them
Then you need to learn, sometimes the hard way, about their quirks and bugs
Is this meant to sound like a “set back”?
In my opinion, this a wonderful journey of exploration. At least for me. Why not download a trial of a plugin and enjoy playing with it? It is the part of the creative process and getting ideas.
This can take time, but hey, it is also fun. I’m not a keyboardist, for example, but I had fun using many synth plugins.
My daughter also plays and practices with Gig Performer. Endless fun.
I personally hate plugins and only use them because I absolutely need to.
I guess opinions differ I simply love plugins. I started using software based setups as soon as I could. Whatever criterion I can think of - it is simply better for me. Convenience, practicality, fun, used space, quality of sound, doing wild things you could never do with hardware pedals.
I still have guitar pedals, but haven’t been using them for more than 10 years.
Maybe it’s just me, but I consider plugins to be a revolution. Brilliance of people’s minds.
The only arguments I can understand from the people are:
But hey, with Gig Performer it is as easy as pie! My message to these folks: It won’t hurt to try! You already have a computer. You can mess around with your integrated audio chip and try bundled templates in a Gig Performer trial. It will ring a bell and give you some fresh ideas. My 10-year-old daughter is using it (and she doesn’t even know English that well 
), you can use it, too!
Famous Greek philosopher Heraclitus once said: “It is in changing that we find purpose.”
Get out of your comfort zone and try new things.
Imagine a person completely new to this world.
Gosh, they don’t know what fun they are missing out. I remember first time I tried software solutions, that was an incredible feeling. I wish that fun to all the people wanting to switch to Gig Performer and plugins.
Instead of pushing GP as a means to dump hardware for plugins could it be promoted as a companion automation tool? When I finally get back to hardware for playing, I’ll keep using GP most probably, it can complement hardware nicely, so there may be no need for radical “software or nothing” messaging?
I wouldn’t say “software or nothing”, I would say “software-first”
Or do “whatever you want with it”.
As the matter of fact, I wrote a blog article about how successful Gig Performer was in many compelling situations as a companion: [blog] Gig Performer is the best companion for all your musical efforts and more
Currently it’s very difficult to reuse anything but whole gigs or rackspaces,
Whole gig files? That is perfect for me, and I look for whole gig files. If I have the NDSP Archetype: Gojira plugin and download a gig file somebody created - it simply works. I don’t see any issue here.
If I like the panel, I can export it and import it.
If I have another plugin, I know I must re-assign parameters. Who knows, maybe some AI bots could do this work in future
It took me about 2 years to bring my GP to the level of convenience where I can use it more or less comfortably. Still not 100% there yet.
Couch yes, I have been tinkering with it, but bringing it to a rehearsal or a show is a different story.
Not true. To begin with, GP by itself doesn’t produce any sounds, you can’t install it and start playing.
Then there’s the issue with plugins that you need to select and buy.
If you can tolerate the crappy sound then yes. I have tried each and every guitar amp sim that exists. They are all horrible to a varying degree. More or less okayish for recording when you eq the hell out of them, or playing through headphones, for playing them live - meh. Third party IRs help, but not 100%. So yes, you can produce some sounds out of them, but goodness, are they awful.
And that’s only part of the story. Then there’s UX which is completely nauseating and inconvenient, with inconsistency across plugins even from the same vendor sometimes, bugs, the stupid skeuomorphism. No, I can’t wait to finally get rid of all this nonsense.
I need them, not want them. And they are available out of the box with hardware. And it’s interesting you mentioned loopers. There are loopers in DAWs, but all vst loopers that exist are super annoying. They either have 55 channels I don’t care for and 100 unneeded functions, which makes them cumbersome to use, or are buggy, or both. Building a looper into my gig was one of the most difficult things I did to take GP to a state where it is workable.
I haven’t used pedals for years, and have zero desire to go back to any analog gear.
They do, and also people have different interests. I also love tinkering with stuff, but there are some things in life that other people love, and I have zero interest in doing. Like skiing, for example.
And also, all the time I spent customizing GP took time from playing guitar. So to me it is perfectly understandable why many people resist using software.
Everybody’s mileage varies. It took me a week for my needs.
I don’t agree with you
You can run a template and play with it.
I don’t agree either, per my previous post. That is the joy of exploration.
It may be that people want things to happen immediately and now, but everything is a process. A continuous learning process through the life. That is true with everything, ranging from your own playing skills to technology.
Again, everybody’s mileage varies. I’m perfectly happy with my plugins and don’t consider them to be “crappy” LOL.
You compare dialing in a plugin’s GUI, compared to cabling and tweaking a bunch of pedal boards and amps? 
No way I want to squat all the time and dial in physical knobs of tons of pedals. That is “legacy” (thank goodness).
In my case, significantly less than using hardware approach I was using before.
That’s why I’m happy to see more people embracing Gig Performer.
Either sharing experiences in this thread, or these quotes.
NB: I’m not writing this from a Gig Performer team member perspective, but from the I truly enjoy all what modern technology can offer perspective.
(Opinions are different, this is just my view on things)
I don’t cable and tweak pedalboards and amps.
I used Axe-FX, and will return to it when circumstances allow it. And that will again allow me to focus on playing guitar, spend way less time tweaking things, and actually enjoy the sound.
Good luck! 
Good for you
There are still things I haven’t figured out how to port to software. Well, technically I know how to do it, but actually doing will be a very long and tedious process with manually drawing automation.
I do as well. Just not when it’s wrapped in an ugly bundle with controls thrown across multiple pages. And technology in hardware is often more advanced and sounds much better. Which is kind of important sometimes.
I don’t agree
The issue is if you don’t have the Gojira plugin, but use Tom Morello from NDSP, or something completely different.
Or take the example of looper. There are several attempts to build a looper, and to be usable they need widgets, scripting and plugin blocks, importing that isn’t trivial, and a whole gig file or a rackspace aren’t useful at all if you need to add such a component to your gig.
Oh, and one more thing, by the way.
One of the main functions of GP for me is that it allows me to never deal with the ugly and idiotic interfaces of plugins. If they weren’t as awful as they are, I probably would just use them in a DAW. GP lets me hide them, and have controls grouped in a reasonable way, always in the same place on my hardware controller. But it took a lot of time to build.
Are you not involved in live performance?
Not currently with all my constant relocations, I only play in rented rehearsal space’s occasionally with whoever I can find.
Before that I did play live in clubs.
We quickly moved to all digital, with silent stage and IEMs cause that was the only way really to get good sound in smaller venues.
I also built a fairly elaborate setup with all equipment automated in ableton - preset switching and such. We also used some vst effects for vocals for a while but then switched to Axe-FXs, a pair of which worked for 2 guitars, a bass and vocals. There was also a rack with a digital mixer (a MOTU sound card in fact) that was controlled by Ableton - mostly for IEM mixes, but also some automation like occasional panning.
The main problem with plugins wasn’t the host for me, but the sound and difficulty of quick adjustments.
Amp sims for guitar - all the vsts that exist - may be ok-ish in a completely controlled environment like headphones, but with unpredictable sound reproduction and acoustic qualities you get all kinds of surprises at loud volume. So they need constant tweaking here and there during sound checks, in my experience, or else I get something too fizzy, or too boomy, etc. and if I have a setlist with 20 songs, it’s a real pain in the butt to do. First there are many instances and you need to go to each one and change things. Then the controls you need are all over the place - take the idiotic NDSP stuff for example, each plugin has like 5 pages, whoever came up with this lunacy should burn in hell. Then they are never the same, meaning each one has a number of “pedals” but a different freaking set of them. NDSP Tom Morello doesn’t have a tremolo, which you need if you play covers of his songs, so you need to find it elsewhere, I already mentioned looper, etc etc.
Now I have this monster gig file in GP that finally solves all of the ux issues, but it took me 2 years to figure out and build, all in all.
For whatever reason all of the sound issues didn’t exist when I used Axe-FX, it was a super consistent set once and forget beast. It just sounded awesome everywhere, always. It is also on the complex side, but man, you need a wah in your patch? Just drag it in. 2 amps in parallel? Easy. Super duper space strymon-like reverbs/delays? All there. Need an elaborate pitch shifter that makes your guitar sound like an arpeggiator? 5 minute affair. Synth? Also there. And if you have an itch for tweaking, you can go and play with cathode follower or such like settings to “mod” an amp into something different.
And it has useful settings like that global reverb offset I mentioned in another conversation earlier.
I can go on forever talking about it, I should probably stop.
Back to GP, like I said, when I get back to a more normal life I’ll get back to Axe-FX as well for sure, but will keep GP as a setlist automation thing instead of Ableton, it does a number of things better than DAWs, and it can control equipment via midi. So to me it’s not a vst vs hardware choice at all. VSTs serve well in recording and mixing. And I was ok using Komplete Kontrol as well, wouldn’t go to a “real” workstation keyboard ever. For guitar, eh, it’s more complicated.
@dhj while I was thinking about @npudar’s comment on sharing whole gigs, and trying to come up with examples when it’s not optimal, I got an idea.
First, the problem statement. There are cases when a user needs something smaller than a gig file or a rackspace. One example is a looper, which currently requires widgets, an instance of TH-U, and a scriptlet.
Each of these things can be shared, but not all at once, so it requires configuration and tinkering.
What if GP had something like a favorites bundle (maybe a stupid name)?
We have favorites that allow to import several plugin blocks with connections. Super cool but doesn’t work by itself in this case.
We can copy and paste widgets in bulk from another rackspace or even a gig file. Super cool but a bit obscure, and to copy something from a different gig you need to know about instances.
We have scriptlets, which allow to isolate GPScript code.
So how about an ability to import all of that at once? With connections, settings, handles and all that’s required for the stuff to work immediately after importing? In wiring view, such a bundle would ideally have common inputs and outputs, although that’s maybe not too critical.
A looper or a media player would be some examples where it would be useful for sharing - you would typically integrate these into an existing gig, and don’t need a whole gig file for that, and these won’t work as rackspaces either.
Another example is inserting a specific effect into a rackspace - say, some valhalla room reverb, or a sampler, or some such.
Shouldn’t be too difficult to implement?
Sigh.
Ok
It was worth trying 
It’s not that such a suggestion is not in the pipeline - we recognize the value of that suggestion — it’s simply not as simple to actually build as one might think.
My apologies for the “Sigh” but if I had a dime for every time I saw the comment “should be easy to implement” or equivalent, I could retire!
I understand, there’s nothing to apologize for.
I think got a sigh once!
What did you propose