New VST Host Camelot

General discussion about Gig Performer
21

Good comments by everyone and would like to make additional comments. It all comes down to personal preference and needs…and by no means am I promoting Camelot. I am just voicing my personal opinion since it was previously posted for discussion. In fact, I purchased the full version of GP and have not purchased the full version of Camelot… but certainly plan on it. If scripting and OSC support is mandatory for your needs, then obviously GP is your host and no need to read further. Or, if intense programming & tweaking sounds is important, then yes GP is the way to go with custom widgets, variations, etc. In my case, I am using my two, master external midi keyboards (Roland EP & Hammond SK-1) as controllers but are they not designed for tweaking zillions of VST parameters. If I need to make minor tweaks, I use the VST or External MIDI Synth to make them. I have no intentions of ever ditching my External MIDI Synths… I like and use them just as much as the best VSTs available.

The following comments are based upon my VST & External MIDI Synth setup. This may or may not apply for your setup. But after using and testing both GP & Camelot here is what I have concluded thus far.

Camelot offers the following:

FULL PATCH NAME & BANK SUPPORT: Full support and ease of controlling External MIDI Synths. It’s ALL there already in Camelot. Just click on a synth icon and instantly Patch Names & Bank structure appear and ready to send out program changes to any bank instantly in a Single Menu!

AUDITIONING EXTERNAL SYNTH SOUNDS: I think we can all agree that auditioning sounds can be very time-consuming to find that perfect sound for a particular song especially when using multiple layers & splits for more than one MIDI controller. In my MIDI setup (with local off on all), I use a Roland EP & Hammond SK1 as my two controllers and also use their onboard sounds. In addition, I have rackmount Roland & Yamaha synths. Camelot already has the ability for using the UP & DOWN arrows on computers or laptop’s keyboards. For me, this is crucial and far more efficient when searching / scrolling / auditioning hundreds of sounds versus in GP having to use a mouse to precisely hover, click on widgets or on tiny +/- icons… and also having to make constant visual monitoring with computer screen (No need to with UP & DOWN arrows). This is not an issue for auditioning sounds for VSTs in both GP & Camelot, just open the VST and Patch Names appear and then use either UP & DOWN arrows or mouse. So VSTs are not the issue. Also, manually turning program change knobs on external rackmount /synths is NOT the answer… for one example, my rackmount gear is behind me and not convenient to my two controllers for auditioning sounds.

MIDI ROUTING CAPABILITIES: Are exceptional in Camelot with no limitations that I have come across. In a, Single Menu (for any External MIDI Synth or VST) you can send, receive, sync, filter, transpose, octave shift, patch receive channel, and also includes advanced MIDI channel routing. It’s all there.

SPLITS, LAYERS & ZONING: In a Single Screen control your entire setup using Camelot.

SEMI-TRANSPOSE: Instantly, On-the-fly global transpose changes for the entire song which could include both VST & External MIDI Synths using Camelot

MULTIPLE SCENES PER SONG: Customize & transition seamlessly to switch from Intro, Verse, Chorus, Ending scenes per song using Camelot.

SETLISTS: Easily arrange songs in a setlist or create multiple setlists for various gigs using Camelot.

There are big plus’s & minus’s for both GP & Camelot but I would certainly spend an hour or so trying out the Camelot demo.

Synthz

22

Thank you for this write-up.

Re: SETLISTS … you are mentioning multiple “scenes” per song and setlist rearrangement. Is Setlist/Song support in GP somehow inferior?

23

No, not at all… just pointing out that Camelot supports it very well and easier IMO. Again, it all comes down to personal preference and needs.

Full support for controlling External MIDI Synths is my biggest issue with GP… yes, it can be done by creating widgets & variations, etc… but Camelot already supports this with all functions already integrated. GP would be the full package if this was already integrated.

24

What you call full support is the ability to work with synth patch lists ? Because regarding the other controls there is nothing that cannot be done using GP (without scripting and widgets).

25

Thanks for your comments and questions.

Camelot has full integration for both “Patch Names & Banks” for External MIDI Synths and can send out these programs changes easily via MIDI from a single menu… GP does not. And just as important, the ability to make program changes (scrolling through hundreds of sounds) in this same menu using the UP & DOWN arrows on the computer’s keyboard is crucial IMO… GP cannot (only with VSTs). I guess that’s why VSTs already have this UP & DOWN arrow capability integrated into them… because it is very efficient.

This concludes my clarification on this.

26

I don’t use external midi synths anymore, but if I did I can definitely see the appeal of what Camelot does in that regard.

Just thinking off the cuff here, seems to me GP would be pretty close to that if it offered an “External Synth” block that acted a lot like a “midi out” block with the added functionality of the preset mapping stuff you’re describing.

I don’t think the “preset maps” would have to be more than a csv text file mapping preset names to program change and bank select messages. And that “External Synth” block would just have to give you a drop down list or similar mechanism for choosing.

I don’t see using it myself, but could see where it would be useful if I did want to resurrect some outboard sound sources.

27

Actually, some do, some don’t. I won’t mention one that I’ve just been trying that has thousands of presets and up/down arrows don’t work at all. Another very famous company with lots of plugins that I use all the time completely supports the use of up and down keys except that that you can’t actually preview a sound until you press ENTER at which point the entire list disappears so you have to start all over again.

Agreed, we don’t (currently) have that — however as both an end user and as a developer, I personally find this to be a perhaps nice but really minor feature in the grand scheme of things. If I was going to use my hardware keyboards again and wanted to find sounds, I would much prefer to sit in front of the keyboard, scroll through, audition and tweak the sounds using all the controls/knobs on the keyboard itself, ultimately even saving the tweaked sound to a new location. Even if I don’t want to tweak, I just don’t see it as much of an effort to preview directly on the keyboard and then set GP to the appropriate program. It’s a very minor piece of the overall workflow. Eventually, one gets to know most of the patches one needs to use anyway.

I’m sure we’ll add support for this at some point. But as more and more people recognize how much they can do with a laptop and VSTs and without external synths, to me that is the future for most.

Obviously, the above is my personal opinion.