New audio interface wanted, but which to buy?

schamass · November 22, 2024, 7:46pm

Hi guys,
it’s time again to have some new gear…
At the moment i have a Scarlett Solo (3rd Gen) and it’s OK for just playing along.
But i’d like to have a few more In/Out channels, and most important, i’d like to have a flexible routing of the in/out channels as well as one or two loopback channels that are separated from any fixed routing.
I just ordered the Focusrite 8i6 (3rd Gen), but it turned out to be very limited in its routing options… Headphone 1 is hardwired to input 1&2, HP2 wired to 3&4, the input assignment goes always to Out 1& 2 including HP1, i couldn’t get the loopback into Gig Performer to work in a convenient way…
long story short: I’ll send it back and get a diffrent one!

I also have own a Presonus revelator io24, which i use on my “work-PC” and this interface is able to handle the loopback channel exactly the way i want it to be…
So, one hot candidate for the new interface is the Presonus Quantum ES4 (~280€ in Germany):
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuantumES4--presonus-quantum-es-4-usb-c-audio-interface
It most probably has the same UI as my Revelator io24, so i guess it would work as expected.
Also it offers exact the number of I/O channels i’d like to have, also it seems to be not too big.
Has anyone have ever used this?

There are quite a number of interfaces, which would match the I/O channel requirements, but i don’t really know about the usability when it comes to signal routing.
From their announcement texts, they all offer “loopback” and/or “flexible routing”, but that’s what i also read for the Scarlett 8i6 - and then i had to face the reality.

Interfaces which i tend to consider to also be suitable, but of which i don’t know the details:
MOTU M4, Antelope Zen Quadro Synergy Core (a bit too pricy), Audient iD4 MKII (not really cheap, also to big/heavy, some bad reviews about reliability), Steinberg UR44C (quite heavy, i’m not so convinced of Steinberg interfaces anymore)…

The two major goals i want to achieve (on Windows!):

Be able to route one stereo pair of outputs to the mains, and another output pair to the headphones - typical DJ application: play one song over the speakers, while pre-listen another song over the head phones.
Set the system audio output of an application (i.e. an internet browser running YouTube) to the loopback channel of the interface, without it automatically sounding over the main outputs. Then have that loopback channel available in Gig Performer, so that i can send it through a mixer block, to adjust volume, maybe add some effects… while at the other channels of the GP-mixer i would feed in other signals (microphone & effects = Karaoke), or VSTs which would be played (keyboard, or guitar) to some backing tracks…

So… maybe one of you can give me some advice on this or can recommend a specific interface… i’m all eyes and ears! Thank you in advance!

PS:
I know that the king of the hill would be a RME interface, but even the Baby Face is far too expensive for what i plan to pay, and also i don’t like the placement of the I/O jacks… cables on three sides of a rather small device? Naaah… i don’t like it, not for such an amount of money.

David-san · November 22, 2024, 9:29pm

How much did you spend for audio interfaces in the last ten years ? And for what quality and possibilities ? I bought an RME UCX for 911 euros for more than ten years now and I still love it for so many reasons and I will of course keep it as long as I can.

xpansion · November 22, 2024, 10:01pm

I have been using a Behringer XR18 since February of 2016. The routing options are insane.

X

Angel · November 22, 2024, 10:11pm

The audio interface is the most important part in a laptop based audio rig. It makes no sense to try to save money at this point. No need to tell you. As mentioned by @David-san: How much did you invest in keyboards, controllers and plug-ins over the last ten years? Investment in an audio interface should be in the same order to match ambitions.

I bought a RME Babyface Pro over ten years ago, and I never had to worry on an interface or on driver stability or latency since then. Often said, this was my best invest, ever, together with Omnisphere with Spectrasonics generous update policy. RME Totalmix offers more routing capabilities then I can understand …
Given the level of engagement you are showing here in this GP forum, at least an RME Fireface UCX II would be on par to this level

Vindes · November 23, 2024, 3:58am

My general experience with audio interfaces is that ones with relatively few inputs and outputs tend to be very limited in how you can route signals. I have a Motu M4, and it won’t do what you want it to do. I had a Presonus equivalent for a brief while (not the revelator), but I returned it because it had similar routing limitations. My brother had one of the Universal Audio Volt interfaces, which also had the same issues.

Every time I’ve gone through the kind of search you’re doing I found that I had to step up to a unit with ADAT to get the kind of internal routing capabilities you’re talking about. I rarely use the ADAT ports, but once you have an interface with that much IO all the ones I’ve used offer sophisticated internal routing options.

If there’s an interface you think may work I’d suggest looking at the manual for its internal mixing interface. If the manual totally glosses over it, then it probably won’t do it.

I have an Audient iD14, which I think will do what you want but it only has two analog ins and two sets of outs. It’s on my work computer, and really just there for mic in, headset out, main out, and a big volume knob. I haven’t really done anything with the mixing/routing. If you decide that’s a contender then I can do some experimenting if it would help.

Among those that will basically route anything anywhere, I have a Focusrite 18i20, a few RMEs, and an old Motu Traveler.

If I were looking for what you’re looking for at a reasonable price I’d look at the Motu Ultralite Mk 5 (which I had on backorder for a while before going in a different direction) or one of the Focusrite or Presonus units with ADATs. The 18i16, maybe the 16i16, or the Studio 1824c may be your lowest cost solid quality options.

Zipdog · November 23, 2024, 6:38am

I’m in a PC environment. I had a Focusrite 4i4that was nothing but trouble in my use case - some plugs sounded horrible with serious noise. Sold the Focusrite and bought a MOTU M4 and couldn’t be happier! Does exactly what it says on the tin with zero setup drama and dead silent operation. Highly recommended!

genM · November 23, 2024, 9:44am

I also have a PreSonus Revelator io24 connected to my work PC. Additionally, I own the low-noise MOTU M4, although in my opinion, it should be called Moto 2+2 because only 2 inputs are XLR, and the others are 6.3mm jacks. The MOTU M6 is a true M4 model with 4 XLR inputs and 2 x 6.3mm jacks. For me, 2 XLR inputs are not enough—often, you need a 3rd or 4th microphone with 48V phantom power, and then the M4 falls short.

One advantage of the M6 is that its inputs are on the back. When I’m in a hurry, I occasionally snag one of the XLR connectors on the M4. Thanks to its metal housing, it is also well-shielded against interference.

genM · November 23, 2024, 9:56am

the Price ist today 417,69 for the M6

schamass · November 23, 2024, 2:20pm

Thank you all for your advice.
So after having slept a night, I finally decided that the mentioned Presonus would be the right one… I already know how to use the software, and it seems to have the right features for a reasonable price.
If the RME Babyface had different hardware design, I probably had spend the money, but… yeah, you know.
I will report back when I’ve received the new one!

JonFair · November 23, 2024, 6:07pm

You might look for a used RME that has a box format, rather than the Babyface. There are likely people who upgraded perfectly good units to get more I/O.

In addition to stability and sound, the TotalMix software is very powerful and useful. Routing DAW and GP sounds, plus mics, monitors, etc. is easily achieved. You can also get their ARC device, which gives you a big volume knob wherever you want it with a single USB connection. It has buttons for configurations, so you can A/B things easily.

I think the used market is viable. Most interfaces just sit in a room for their entire lives.

David-san · November 23, 2024, 6:54pm

Also a good solution, you can find used Fireface UCX which drivers are still updated by RME after years.

schamass · November 26, 2024, 8:06pm

So, today the Presonus Quantum ES4 arrived… i instantly was able to setup each of the previously described scenarios. The size and design of the interface is very nice, also the driver/software is very intuitive to use.
I use it on 41khz with a buffer size of 256, which results (according to GP) in 5.9ms latency… that’s absolutely ok.
What i don’t like so much: It needed an additional USB aux power supply to run (2.5A). Obviously the USB 2 port was to weak.
As much as i can say at the moment, i would absolutely recommend it.

jeffn1 · November 26, 2024, 8:46pm

I use one their baby sibling, the AudioboxGo (I’m a keyboard player). It has worked fine for my purposes (I only need one input and output).

I like I can keep it on my keyboard and use it as a master volume. The pricepoint was nice too (I bought a 2nd one for my rehearsal space).

I use the same settings as you too (41khz with a buffer size of 256).

Jeff

TjEvans74 · March 24, 2025, 1:47am

I plead guilty of reviving an old thread, but I had to ask, Schamass, what is your use case for GP with the ES4? I just set mine over the weekend, and discovered that the “4 outputs” outputs of the ES4 are not really 4 outputs. My goal was to send my guitar left and right through outputs 1/2, and my vocals through output 3.

I’ve discovered that these are not necessarily “outputs” in the traditional sense, but rather monitor hookups, generally speaking. Presonus does mention that you can attach your main monitors to outputs 1/2 and s secondary set to outputs 3/4.

With all inputs set up, I set up all of my outputs in GP, and they are reading just fine, via USB, but when plugging my hardware connections to my X32, the Mic line channel (output 3) is ALSO sending signal to outputs 1/2.

HAve you experienced this issue? Do you know of any way to alleviate my routing issues? I’m on a MAC, M2 running Sequoia

dhj · March 24, 2025, 2:35am

Impossible to answer without knowing your budget

vangrieg · March 24, 2025, 5:29am

I know it’s late but who knows, maybe someone else will be reading this.

MOTU AVB series have the most flexible matrix routing out of all interfaces I’ve tried, whether you use AVB or not.

I used a single Ultralite half rack interface as a main and monitor mixer for a 5 piece band (2 guitars, a keyboard, a bass, 2 vocals and drums), where everybody could adjust their mixes on their iPads. And you can route anything anywhere.

Here’s a 3 unit rack that includes:

A power conditioner for all equipment we used
Monitor mixer (and main mixer for rehearsals)
Wireless for 4 out of 5 band members (albeit mono)
Stage box - when hooking up for shows, all connections were from this rack.
Of course it’s also a recording interface
Connected to a computer for automation (the mixer is controllable with OSC)

All based on a small MOTU card, taking as much space as a single Behringer X32 would.

So all the band equipment (apart from pedalboards, keyboards and such, of course) looked like this (2 Axe-FXs did all processing for guitars, bass and vocals - if you use plugins, you don’t even need this).

Can’t recommend those interfaces enough for their mixing capabilities. Oh, and the mixing part in MOTU cards doesn’t require a computer connected, they are fully autonomous as long as there’s an Ethernet connection. 5-10 minutes from unpacking to fully connected, super easy sound checks - we could run recordings through the same outputs, of course, and the guy who was running FOH had presets for many popular main mixers.

schamass · March 24, 2025, 7:53am

I think i explained my use cases in my initial posting (i.e. loopback for karaoke and a 2nd output pair for pre-listening when DJ’ing).
So, for my personal use, everything works as expected.
I can try to set things up the way you described - maybe a screenshot of your wiring view would help me to better understand what you did (and how).

TjEvans74 · March 24, 2025, 8:53am

This is just a testing diagram. Input one is guitar, 2 is microphone then a streaming player.

I want guitar to go out to 1/2 in stereo. I want vocals to go to channel 3 in mono, and the player is going out to the MAC headphone output, using aggregate device settings.

TjEvans74 · March 24, 2025, 9:03am

My hardware wiring is ES4 output 1/2 to Canvas Stereo line isolator then the XLR outs to X32 channel 8/9. MAC headphone out split to X32 channels 11/12. Vocals out ES4 3 with 1/4 inch to XLR to X32 channel 13. I can’t seem to get the vocal channel to send a signal that isn’t also sent to the guitar channels.

schamass · March 24, 2025, 9:05am

Ok. Thank you for the detailed information!
I will try it this evening…