Is there an advantage?

So, after much experimenting with my rig, I have come to realize that there is no discernable difference in computer performance between using my SSL 2+ audio interface (ASIO) or using the standard Windows Audio. My CPU numbers are almost identical (within a % point or 2 max), and my latency is a non-issue (I play at 256ms / 44.1 easily and has been my setting for years).

So, if all I am using is a 2 channel stereo out…is there any reason why I should stay with an extra piece of hardware?

With all due respect in advance, I am not interested in the “because you really should” type of answers. I’m looking for facts based in computer logic and not so much opinion.

Thanks to all,
Joe

Every time I tried with my old windows notebooks, using internal audio chips latency and noise were not suitable for serious audio application (playing live). But also not suitable for simple tests at home. Maybe your computer has an internal decent audio system.
What type of driver are you using, ASIO?
I don’t think you are playing with 256 millisecond latency. For me it would be impossible.
After 80-100 millisecond you feel the sound arriving after you pressed keys, and delay makes playing very upsetting.

When doing your experiments, what input device are you selecting when switching to Windows Audio from ASIO?

He is not. He is playing (I assume) with a 256 sample buffer size which, coupled with 44.1k gives a minimum of 5.9 ms latency. I’ve tried that in the past but it always felt a little too soft when I was playing percussive sounds.

I admit I’d be skeptical of the sound quality of an internal windows sound card but if it works for him, more power to him.

I have always found the internal output to have PSU switching noise on it, especially with Windows laptops. One of my MacBooks I can hear buzzing, the second is quiet and I do use it direct when rehearsing, but never when live. The mechanical audio connection, it is much more robust, and spares are easier to grab, rather than an odd 3.5mm with a split to 1/4" jacks. The SSL2+ also has balanced outputs and one big plus is your computer is one step removed from the external equipment, not fool proof but better than nothing. DI to be super safe.

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With Windows Audio, the Windows operating system is the “middleman” - audio is streamed through Windows and then forwarded to an audio interface.

As for ASIO, there is nothing in the middle - audio is sent directly to the audio interface.

If Windows Audio works great for your buffer size and sample rate that’s great.

Long time ago (~20 years) I was using the Yamaha internal PCI sound card that had really amazing sound even with Windows Audio.

You have MIDI and more physical input/outputs
You see levels on the interface, you can control levels on the interface
With some interfaces you can mix your sounds coming from computer with channels coming back from FOH

That all in conclusion is a big improvement.

Just out of curiosity, what model of audio device is installed on your PC?
As a standard there are many different models depending on the computer (brand, date, motherboard, etc).
On my 2 laptops, the older one (2012) has a Realtek ALC892 and the newer one (2021) has an ALC3254, which makes a huge difference.

I tested the latter in GP with a simple gig consisting of a percussive track in the Audio File Player and a piano plugin to play a few notes with the percussion track.
The buffer was set above 256s but this is a setting, not the actual latency.
I had a lot of trouble keeping up because of the actual latency I encountered.
The recording below shows the overall lag and zooming in reads an average latency of 150ms.

Maybe there are more powerful configurations mounted as standard but my PC is very recent and relatively high end, which is why I would like to know the reference of your audio chipset.

Thank you all for your comments…

For all who have commented on the sound quality of an outboard unit vs. Windows…I will post a sample of each and you can guess which is which :slight_smile: Personally, in a live setting (playing along with the band and through a PA), I have yet to find any discernible difference.

For those offering the physical advantages (ie: more ports, meters, etc)…I don’t use them in the first place.

For those concerned about the 256/441.1 setting being too slow…it never bothered me. I started off playing pipe organ in a big church. Now THAT is latency!!

I’ll get some audio samples out to you guys for review…of course that is all academic. But if there is no real operational advantage other than what has been described above…I may look to ditch it. We shall see…

I think it is quite true in a live situation the differences in audio quality might not matter

Yes, but you were playing by yourself — with a band, you have to be in sync with everyone else and so your own playing might be heard as being slightly late by others in the band and even by some audience members. Whether 256 is enough for that impact is debatable but it could impact the “feel”

Not true!
Cantors, choirs, string ensembles…

It’s a learned discipline that many feel too uncomfortable in attempting. But when you have no choice - you learn to adapt. I’m not saying I could play at 512, but 256 has never given me an issue.

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I started my GP experience without an audio interface, but it never worked for me : too much latency or crackles all the time. So, I looked for an audio interface compatible with USB3 as I had nothing else on my PC and at this time. I found only two audio interfaces working correctly with my PC and Audient and an RME. I then made some audio “blind” test and the RME killed the audient for anybody in the familly.

Your story seem to be very different, if the built-in audio chip works for you and you don’t see/feel/ear any difference keep using your audio chip… why not. But I am a bit surprise that you don’t hear any difference between the built-in 2 cents audio chip and a good audio interface. I made one time a comparison, on a PA system, between the audio output of an iPad and an RME UCX connected to it, it was like night and day.

I will get those samples out for “blind taste tests” soon, David! Hopefully within a week. It will be a fun experiment. I will provide as many details as I can on how the sound files were created.

-Joe

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What you won’t be able to record is how the plugin sound interact with the way you play. Yes it does, at least for me. :wink:

I’ve been playing long enough and proficiently enough to know that it really has no effect on my performance.

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