Just pitchdrop the global transpose then!
Then I miss something and do not understand the requirement.
Maybe I am missing something, but you can also transpose the full song.
That’s just one example. Something like the mix control on a delay would be another one
When a widget is set to ignore variations then in different songparts it is ignored also.
Snapshots are the way to handle this kind of thing - I don’t understand why you think it’s just a big deal.
Just put a button widget in your global rackspace attached to the “Take snapshot” parameter in the System Actions plugin - optionally map that widget to a button on your controller.
Then just scroll though each song part and press the button!
My original post at the top of this thread outlines what I imagine is a common situation and no one has addressed this yet I don’t think:
Imagine I have a song that uses several song part snapshots all based on the same rackspace. Some of the widgets should have the same value across all song parts and some of the widgets should change value for specific song parts. The wish is to be able to toggle “ignore song parts” for those widgets that should have the same value on all parts. For example, let’s say I want the piano louder during the “piano solo” song part, but I want the strings pad to be the same across all song parts. Then one day I decide the strings pad is too quiet, so I want to raise its level by +2dB on all song parts. As things stand I’ll have to flip through each part and adjust that widget, and depending on the widget type and the range of values, it may be difficult to dial in a precise +2.0dB change each time so if I’m lazy I may end up with slight volume differences in the strings pad from one song part to the next.
This is a situation that I encounter frequently because in my setup I don’t use rackspace variations at all. I only use song part variations, so all of my widget-twiddling happens in setlist mode.
All widgets which ignore variations have the same value in all song parts.
When you want a widget have a different value for all song parts then switch to rackspace view and adjust the widget value and switch back to setlist view.
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The issue is that its still at that last value when you switch songs. I need it to go to the song’s default saved value when I go to the new song
How is this supposed to work live? The singer says “hey man, I can’t quite hit those high notes on this song tonight”
So we say, “hey audience, wait a second, let me bend down here, scroll thru my song parts and save a snapshot for each one real quick”
Its definitely a big deal, snapshots are only a workaround when you have time at home, not at the show
Say I’m using one rackspace (how about “pianos and Hammond”) for many songs.
Most of those songs have only a single song part, and in that song part is a snapshot which customizes that generic rack space to the particular song.
But one song using that rackspace has two song parts, which both use the same piano settings, but where each song part has different Hammond drawbar settings. I want the piano-related widgets to remain constant across both song parts (so that of I later decide to make a modification to the piano sound, the modification affects both song parts, but when I modify the Hammond sound, it only affects the particular song part I’m editing).
And another song built on the very same rackspace also has two song parts: in this one I want the Hammond sound to be the same for both parts, but crank up the piano volume for just one of them.
Do you see why a song-specific “ignore song part variations” toggle on widgets would be useful here? For one song, it’s the piano widgets that should ignore song parts, but for the other song it’s the Hammond widgets that should ignore song parts. In neither case would I want those widgets to revert to their values from the rackspace-mode rackspace because they need to be different in different songs.
Then you have time to adjust the settings before the show, right?
Why not use different rackspaces?
Only if I know before the show.
Why all of these Apologetics? This is a problem. It may not be YOUR problem, but it is a problem in some very common and specific cases. Its a problem other products have a way of dealing with.
I am not seeing good solutions with these workarounds, and I think my track record here so far is that I’ve done a lot to find working solutions even if they aren’t solutions I’m used to. I am open to new ways of working, but none of the solutions to this issue presented so far are actual solutions to this specific problem, they are solutions to a different set of circumstances
Because then I would have to make changes across potentially several hundred songs based on this one rackspace. Also, this again, is not a solution live in the heat of the moment
Ok, maybe others do have a solution, seems my solutions do not work for you.
There are no apologetics — there have been quite a few suggestions to solve your immediate problem given that there is currently no concept of Ignore songparts. There’s also always going to be some push-back that’s intended to elicit more and deeper details so that the general need can be assessed, etc.
But the goalposts keep moving. It started with a the need to adjust pitch (transpose) due to a singer issue. We suggested that you could just adjust global transpose. But then you noted that maybe you want to change a mix control., etc.
Now, it’s easy to say, let’s just have “Ignore Songparts” but the reality is that this is not a trivial request (well, maybe it’s a trivial request but it’s not trivial to implement)
At this time, there is no concept of properties for individual widgets in the context of songs or song parts. Song parts don’t actually have their own widgets - they’re just references to variations in some rackspace.
There is no “song part inspector” GUI where such a property could perhaps be added.
It’s also not obvious that “Ignore Songparts” would be a complete solution nor is it clear how many people would benefit from it — two or three requests over eight years is not exactly demonstrating a major need that would benefit 90% (say) of our users (and potential users) in a way that’s more important than the items already on our list for future versions.
Maybe this is in fact a critical (albeit unknown to most) need that we need to prioritize but that’s not a simple decision to make.
There are already other ways to address such things. The very reason we implemented GP Script and an SDK for developing extensions was to allow people to be able to address/augment GP with features that are not already built-in.
Maybe GP Script can be helpful - if that’s not sufficient, then you could certainly implement a 3rd party extension that can essentially specifically implement the specific “Ignore songparts” since extensions have deep access into the moving parts in Gig Performer. In fact if the goal is to provide a version of GP to specifically address your guitar players, then an accompanying extension to support your needs seems like a very attractive proposition.
I was asked for an example where this could be a problem, that was just the first one I gave, no moving of any goalposts. There are many cases where this can be an issue and why the existing hardware has ways of dealing with it. It comes up very often for live guitar players if they aren’t on rails and will be improvising.
I’ll look into whether scripting a way around can help, it probably could.
Let’s just say for the moment there was an “ignore songparts” switch that you could attach to a widget. Let’s use the “mix control on a delay” example brought up earlier.
As I understand the request, “ignore variations” is not sufficient because you want that knob to be set differently for different songs. For example, SongOne it might be set at 30% and SongTwo has it set at 50%.
When you’re in SongOne and you change it to 40% you want that to stay the same across songparts (which means it has to ignore variations). When you go to SongTwo it has to revert back to the saved 50% level, but if you change it to 60% during the song it stays that way across songpart changes.
If that’s the gist of it, then I think you can accomplish it now by duplicating the Rackspace. You’d have that widget on “ignore variations” for both Rackspaces, but saved at different levels.
If you don’t want to duplicate the Rackspace then it sounds like what you want is the ability to make a one-time adjustment to the knob automatically when the song is entered. Does that sound right?
So when SongOne is entered the knob is set to 30% and any changes you make to it during the songs persist across Songpart changes. Then upon entering SongTwo it gets set back to 50% and anything you do there persists across song changes as well.
Vindes - Yes, that’s the gist of it. But when you say “any changes you make to it during the songs persist across Songpart changes”… yes, assuming that you take a snapshot. I wouldn’t want any changes that I make during a performance to be automatically saved without the user explicitly hitting the snapshot button.
And yes, duplicating the rackspace is one solution, but that’s precisely what I’m trying to get away from. When I first started using GP I had a rackspace for just about every song, and with ~200 songs it made the gigfile really big and slow to load.