How does this small form factor proposed build look?

Thanks again for all the comments Vindes and Matt

I kind of have kept creeping up with every bit…and do wonder if I’m gettinga a bit ridiculous…I think I’ll end up using it for some Adobe Premiere Pro editing too…

So this is the latest build I have…but price has certainly started to blow out!!

Open to any thoughts at all on this…the 64 gig may well be overkill…the GPU is with Adobe in mind more than anything…

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Intel Core i5 13600K CPU
Cooler Master NR200P Max TG + Mesh ITX Case with GPU Riser Includes 850w PSU and AIO cooler)
Kingston KC3000 M.2 NVMe Gen4 SSD 2TB
Kingston KC3000 M.2 NVMe Gen4 SSD 1TB
Corsair Vengeance 64GB (2x32GB) 5200MHz CL40 DDR5 White
Gigabyte Z690I Aorus Ultra Plus ITX Motherboard
Optional:
ASUS GeForce RTX 3060 Ti Dual Mini LHR 8GB (for Adobe Premiere Editing)

Nearly 3.5K AUD now!!

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The Kingston KC3000 is the same speed as the Samsung 980 Pro, so whichever is cheaper and available is good.

If I were to buy that system today here in the US it would be about $2,200 US (before state sales tax), so seems like the right ballpark given exchange rates. Pricey, but should be a pretty sweet setup!

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I think you need to really decide what you’ll be using this PC for. If you are going to be performing live then I would really recommend having a dedicated computer for this - your day to day PC will get bloated with installs of software and services that are irrelevant to performing, which then may suck cycles and potentially add instability. The last thing you want to be doing for a live performance rig is adding software or running updates ad hoc - which is generally how you use a day to day PC. For that reason, Windows Professional is a good option, so you can easily prevent unwanted updates. It also allows remote desktop connection, which I use in my rig so I can run the PC headless in a rack.

If you’re just after a beast PC to do a bit of everything at home, and won’t be performing live, then you can flash the cash… Trouble is, where do you stop, it seems there’s always something better… :grinning:

In my opinion the spec for that PC looks overkill for performance in Gigperformer. For reference, the setup I listed above came in about a quarter of that price (inc UK VAT @ 20%).

Thanks Matt and Vindes. Appreciate the thoughts and advice. I’ve gone ahead and ordered it…but maybe you are right Matt… Have probably got a bit carried away no doubt…and could have used a lot less…but then hopefully will also be a machine I can use for 5 to 10 years. (My previous music pc was 2010…so figure 12 years out of that isn’t too shabby!)

Will aim to limit it to mainly Reaper, Gig Performer and Premiere Pro…but take the point that I will certainly need to be careful to not put too much other junk on there that is for sure…to keep it very lean.

The portability is a factor…as it means if we travel…I have a machine that can go with us…even potentially overseas in a suitcase.

To save money I could have ditched the graphics card…kept it to 32gig…and probably just a 12400…DDR4 mobo and still had a very capable machine…oh well…

But certainly this ‘PC part shopping’ like you say Matt…does get a little crazy…you start with one spec…and then think “for just a little bit more I could get this”…and then for another little bit more…could get that!

Anyway just happy to lock something in. Thanks for all the help and taking time to post everyone in the thread…hopefully some useful bits and bobs for others…I’ve certainly learned a lot throughout the research stage!

Congrats… it sounds like you’ve gone for the right option for you. You should get many years out of that PC, so over time it’s not so bad pricewise and should be a joy to use.

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Thanks Matt… my wife and my conscience may have slightly different expressions for me other than ‘congrats!!’ :wink:

Certainly don’t spend that amount of money lightly… but hopefully will be a creative tool for years to come! (and as someone said in one of the GP Youtube videos…some people spend their coin on fancy cars…motorbikes and speedboats…we spec out our music machines!! Thank you for the support! Appreciate it!

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Well just an update… I bought all the parts for this pc build…but unfortunately after ptting it together it does not start…and just clicks.

Here s a summary of what I tried if anyone has any suggestions:

  1. As it was a z690 mobo…and I went with the latest i13600K CPU…I tried to flash the bios…with just CPU and Mobo power connected…but discovered no power would come on…apart from a light on the power button…but no noise anywhere…so couldn’t flash the bios.

  2. I then decided to assemble the PC to see if perhaps it would start with all the pieces assembled,

After doing that the power button glows brighter…there is the occasional ‘clicking’ noise as if the computer is trying to do something…but there are no lights on the mobo at all.

I have double checked the various connections…plugging and replugging…(the 24 pin and 8 in CPU power)

Am now at a loss and stuck with around 3.5 thousand dollars worth of parts…something broken somwehere…8 hours return drive from Melbourne…and no functional computer over the Christmas period when I’d hoped to use it for creative purposes! Is certainly disappointing…

My learning reflection for others is unless you’re an enthusiast with access to spare parts or closer to the pc part shop it is a whole lot safer to pay the pc part companies to build the machines…it solves warrenty issues/replacement issues…they have access to testing spare parts, experience and it saves a whole bunch of time! (they wear the troubeshooting time)

I’ll put this down to experience…and now see what I can salvage from what has turned out to be a very costly mistake…in both time and money…will go back to my 2010 laptop…

Sorry to sound despondent…just feel a bit that way!! :slight_smile:

Ugh, I feel for you. Sorry.

Thanks! I think my reflection is our time is money and is precious too…even free time…now if you’re hobby is building pc’s and you have pc parts all over the place…and you love tinkering…then building yourself is a good idea…but it is kind of like buying a car without warranty…if something goes wrong…it is a massive pain to resolve it! Anyway thanks for the thoughts…in the scheme of ‘disasters’ it is a pain and costly but far worse things can happen in life! I’ll put $3500 down to my education! :slight_smile: (and hopefully it can actually be recovered)

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Sorry to hear of the problems.

On the positive side, it seems highly likely to me that the problem is human error rather than failed components. On the negative side, that motherboard makes things very difficult to diagnose.

Chances are there is only one thing going wrong. Once you stumble across it, most likely everything will go fine from there out.

My first suggestion is always to take out and reconnect each connector and component one at a time. Sounds like you’ve done that multiple times, but you may want to check again just to be sure.

The power connectors and RAM are all locking type connectors. Try pulling them out without pressing the lock releases. If they come out, then it’s because they’re not actually all the way in. That 24 pin ATX power connector can be a real pain. They’re tough to get on and even tougher to get off, so if yours feels even remotely easy to put on or pull off then it’s not really on. Sometimes it can feel like you’re going to break the motherboard putting it on.

When through that, here are some quick thoughts for diagnosing the problem:

  • POST means Power On Self Test, which is what motherboards do when power is applied and the “On” or “Reset” button is pressed. Most motherboards have onboard LEDs or other visual indicators of POST status and results. Yours does not. That’s a sadly common sacrifice for ITX boards because there’s little spare real estate.

  • without LEDs or the board making it far enough through POST to display on a monitor you’re going to have to look for clues as to what’s happening

  • if you bought a graphics card, take it out. Use the on-board display ports.

  • that board has both a DP and HDMI connector. It’s going to prefer one over the other and you don’t know which. If it’s posting to the DP port and failing to start, and you’re plugged into the HDMI port, you may never get the messages

  • Hopefully you have cables and a monitor that will handle both. You may need to try each and experiment. If you have two monitors, connect both and see if either responds. NOTE: don’t use a DP to HDMI monitor cable for this. Only use DP to DP ended cables and HDMI to HDMI ended cables.

  • don’t mess with the BIOS unless you have to. That board has the QFLASH thing on it, which is really helpful if you absolutely need it, but that would be my last resort here.

  • the only way you’re ever going to know what “state” things are in is to pull power at the power cable, wait 30 seconds, and then plug it back in. Literally unplug the power cable from the back of the case or from the wall every time you want to try another test. The power switch on the power supply doesn’t do what you think it does. The motherboard and power supply “communicate” through that 24 pin ATX connector, and you may think you’re in a “power off” state when you’re not. Pulling power is the only way to get back to a full reset state.

  • Let’s call that a “cold boot”. Some people’s definition of “cold boot” doesn’t involve unplugging the computer, but for our purposes here it means starting from an unplugged state.

  • in your description of what’s happening you never mentioned fans coming on

  • you mention a “click”. What is clicking and when is it clicking? The click is most likely a mechanical relay in the power supply, and those click on and off for specific reasons.

  • You may hear the relay click when you first turn on power with the physical switch. It should not click again until you trigger a boot sequence by pressing the Reset button on the case.

  • Pushing the Reset button should make that relay click exactly once as it puts power to the board. The fans should come on and the motherboard should go into POST. For POST to fail (if it starts) it should take several seconds.

  • If POST fails, after some period of time it will generally turn power back off and you’ll hear a second click when it tells the power supply to go back off. It never actually goes fully off (until you unplug it). The relay click just changes what power is being applied through which wires to the motherboard (and internal to the power supply, but you don’t care about that part).

  • You didn’t describe any of that as happening when you press the Reset button.

  • Your motherboard has a nice feature for this kind of thing. There is a reset button on the motherboard itself. If the reset/power button on the case isn’t doing anything you can use that while the case is open.

  • Unfortunately, I think it’s underneath the daughterboard that holds the M2 SSDs. It may be hard to reach.

The thing you really need to figure out first is if the motherboard is even getting into POST. From your cold state, pushing the Reset button should cause the power supply relay to click, your fans should come on, and it should output something to one of the monitors if it gets that far.

Obviously you’re not getting that far, but tell us exactly what happens and when. Specific as possible, starting from plugging in power at the wall. If it takes a few seconds between things, tell us how many seconds.

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Oh my. One of the takeaways here, which I know all too well from experience, is that if you are building your own you never, ever, put yourself in a position where you have to depend on a successful conclusion by a set time, or limited by budget if something goes wrong (self inflicted or otherwise). You always have to assume that something will go wrong.

Now having said that, one of the first things is that you should never, ever have to flash the bios out of the box. Trust me, I have had cpus that a board didn’t support without a bios update first and you never want to put yourself in that position unless you are a diehard DIYer that has the time and money to burn tinkering with that including possibly bricking your MB. Been there done that.

Getting past that, you are not even getting through the POST. You should be able to put in a compatible cpu (hopefully no pins bent - been there done that too), minimal ram, whatever storage, since it has onboard graphics you don’t need a GPU card, so plug in a monitor and turn it on. Either port should work, but easy to plug it into the other if the first choice isnt displaying. You should at least see the bootstrap manufacturers display while the BIOS is loading, and if you ain’t seeing that its more fundamental. One of the biggest causes is the power to the MB is wrong (as in you haven’t set your PS to the correct mains voltage), or wrong or unseated connector, or RAM, something like that. It’s really fundamental if you can’t even see the MF bootstrap display.

I didn’t do much digging, but apparently there have been BIOS issues with that MB which Gigabyte has not been able to resolve, so they were offering replacements for ones that weren’t performing. Apparently, the replacement was the same MB but updated BIOS. A link to one of the articles I read is below. Further, this has been around for a while and the replacement program ended at the end of November this year but maybe you got some old stock. Who knows. If they are anything like some of the other Taiwanese mfgs, and Gigabyte is a huge mainstream player, they usually have decent customer support as I have had issues like this where the MFG replaced the MB, so let your fingers do some walking and maybe a call. One way or another though this will undoubtedly fall to the MB MFG because it is so new, but you can also talk to your parts seller. Some of them will also accept returns with almost no questions, so if you bought from a decent seller, you might get some love there too.

Don’t get too discouraged. You had a solid parts list with good vendors, stuff like this happens. Your tradeoff is that you are the one that has the pleasure of sorting out problems instead of paying someone else for a fully assembled rig, and even with fully assembled, some manufacturers go out of their way to ensure a great customer experience - like Apple. But you pay for it. On the other hand, you have choices, so enjoy the journey. Even the rough patches can be entertaining. And trust me - it is SO much better than the good (bad) old days when DIY meant soldering stuff onto MBs, and before that, where you had to wire up the backplanes.

Gigabyte decided to recall its Mini-ITX motherboard based on Z690 chipset.

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Thanks Vindes and Cruise cycle… really appreciate you both taking the time to give so many suggestions and ideas… it is greatly appreciated as is the encouragement…

I came across an article that said ‘building your own PC is super easy’ which was a little deflating when I can barely get a light go turn on!!

I think is probably written from the perspective of someone with 20 years experience building PC’s! Mind you …I did build my last one… it worked well… With no issues…

But can certainly also now see it ‘can’ be fraught with issues too when something goes pear shaped!

I realised now too buying the latest gen cpu was probably a mistake as needing to flash the bios maybe has also added to the risk of me frying the mobo

(Perhaps with no lights on mobo… it was flashing . Then I killed it… perhaps I touched edge of case . Zapped it… perhaps faulty… so many unknowns!)

I’m interested in the HDMI tip… I was using a HDMI to DVI adaptor… so will certainly try other cables etc.

The power supply is just so silent…

The mobo is the DDR5 ultra version… revision 1. Where they’d solved that problem on the first versions… researched that one.

I do have my other PC which I could try the psu from… but I’m now nervous about pulling that one apart and potentially breaking this one too through a mistake…

Also have a 2008 era psu but again online I’ve read disaster stories online of people frying their mobos .

I can see PC building is a bit like car tinkering… you almost need a bunch of spares lying around… so you swap parts in and out to narrow problems down…

When virtually nothing goes… it’s hard to even get a clue!!

Anyway thank you and have a great Christmas… I realised too I needed to be more present with the family than being consumed with trying to get this machine to work!

In a worst case I can probably drive back to Melbourne (8 hours return,) and see if the PC supplier can help fix it… But shall certainly try what I can first. Thanks!

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It is super easy 95% of the time. It’s the 5% of the time (like this) that something goes wrong that it becomes hard to figure out unless you have a lot of experience.

Just take a deep breath and wait until you’re in front of the computer again. Follow the steps I went through earlier and just tell us exactly what happens. Patience will be required, but sooner or later you’ll find the problem and most likely it will all work fine once it’s corrected.

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Thanks Vindes…as we opened presents this morning it was certainly a case of "All I want for Christmas is my PC to start!!’

so I’ve indeed taken a deep breath and have made some progress!

I looked at the case and realised I had not plugged in the AIO fans to the fan headers…I also found little extension cables in the mobo box for these fans

I plugged all these in and connected both the AIO fans and the CPU fan…I also plugged in both a HDMI and Display port cable to my monitor. (Using inbuilt mobo graphics)

I turned on the computer. What happens:

  1. The light comes on when I press the power button.
  2. The fans all work…I can hear a bit of liquid on the cooler
  3. Nothing is displayed on the screen.

After 40 seconds or so the computer clicks off…and then on again.
Will keep trying other things when I get a moment.

Thanks for your suggestions!

I’d try this one at a time. With two connected at the same time to the same monitor you’re introducing another variable that you can’t predict.

I’d start with just the DP cable. Turn the monitor on before you boot the computer and use whatever menu buttons you have to force the monitor to the DP input if you can. Then go through the same cold boot steps and see if you get anything on the screen.

If that doesn’t work power off, unplug, then connect the HDMI monitor and repeat.

It’s going through the POST routine and you’re just not seeing it on the monitor. This is not uncommon. My guess is your board is putting something on your display but they’re not syncing up so you’re not seeing it.

With only one monitor cable connected, start from a cold boot and as soon as you hit the Reset/Power button to boot it start pressing the Delete key on your keyboard pretty fast. I go around 140 bpm for this. It’s going to put your motherboard into the BIOS setup mode.

I don’t know why, but certain motherboard/monitor combinations just have a really hard time connecting during that initial POST routine. By forcing it into the BIOS setup mode you’ll have a stable full screen display that your monitor should be able to sync to. There may also be some things you have to set up in the BIOS, but you can worry about that after you get there.

I’d try all that with the DP cable, and if you can’t get it to work try HDMI. As I noted earlier, your board will work better with one over the other for this by default, but you don’t know which.

Last thing - after the computer clicks off then on again after 40 seconds there’s a good chance it’s in a state where you can’t make any progress. That’s when you have to pull the power at the outlet and start again. Turning it off with the switch on the power supply won’t really reset everything.

Forgot to comment on this. Maybe you guessed this, but water pump should connect to the AOI fan header, and the two 140mm fans should be connected to the Y-splitter and the splitter connected to the CPU_FAN header.

Thanks so much Vindes…very helpful. So I tried both cables now one by one…pressing delete. Nothing shows whatsoever.

I am now going to try removing all parts…and another QFlash of the Bios with just power cable and 8 pin CPU.

Edit: Well I pulled it all apart…tried to clean CPU paste…

the whole thing is like a sene from a comdey movie where everything just goes from bad to worse!

succesfully got CPU paste all over the place…back of CPU…motherboard CPU pins…

tried to clean it with Isopropryl alchohol…which seemed to succeed in spreading more paste everywhere… There even seems to be some tiny paste or product glued to top of motherboard now…

cleaned it up as best I can…now tried to reset bios again…there is absoutely no light that shows…even though the manual refers to a light…

I’ll put it altogether again…then try one more time…

Thanks

2nd Edit:

The more I think about it…I’d say the motherboard is defective. The instructions clearly say that pressing the QFlash button will cause light to flash.

This motherboard does nothing. It appears to be working enough to allow power to the fans…and power switch…but it is inoperable.

Such a pain.

I think this is why my recommendation now would always be to let the pc supplier do the building of pc’s,still pick parts yourself…but let their internal team build it…that way the warranty is covered…replacement parts can be pulled off the shelf…and they deal with the problems.

Thanks for everyone who tried to help…I’ll get the ‘wreck’ back to them somehow…and will see what can be done.

Well Vindes…I thought I finally had it!
After finding a reddit post that described holding your tongue at 75 degrees to the right…counting exactly 0.75 seconds…then pressing Qflash button with a usb stick formatted to a very precise specification of a certain vintage…I actually got the orange flashing light sequence for the BIOS flash.

It went through the process…completed…and then I thought …I think I might be a chance!

Sadly then though it still didn’t display!!

I then tried a tv I have with a HDMI port…to rule out the monitor…

I then tried the Display port…

absolutely nothing works in terms of displaying a bios on the screen…I’m not sure whether I should try installing the graphics card…but I’m just using the onboard graphics which I assume should work?

Now I’ve got two options:

  1. Send the whole thing back to Melbourne…pay $100 freight…then $250 for them to install it all again…and then if there is problem with mobo they can hopefully fix it under warranty…or in a worst case ask me to buy another CPU and mobo for $1000,…then pay more freight to send it back.

or

  1. Go to a local repair shop that might have a 12th Gen CPU…it could be that the bios has still not updated correctly and it just doesn’t like the 13th gen…but then I’ll probably have to pay them also to look at it…they might confirm the mobo is dead…and then I still have to send it all back!

  2. The other thing is perhaps in my multiple times inserting and reinserting parts and CPU’s etc…I’ve fried something…

All I know is I now have a lot more experience building a PC…just no success at all at having it work…but I can see how in theory it can be simple if it works!

Thanks for all the help…I’ve got over the ‘depression’ of it all now and am just resigned to this being just one of those things. (We’re alive and breathing and we fight on for another day! Using Gig Performer and playing keys is a walk in the park compared to this PC building caper that is for sure!)

EDIT: Also found a post where a slightly earlier BIOS worked…so I tried flashing 22, 21 and 20!

All to no avail…I think I’ve given this thing every chance to work now!

Before you give up and assume the board is bad let’s try a couple more things.

First - just confirm that you’re now adept at reflashing the bios and you’re confident you are doing it correctly. With the Q-Flash process the orange light should flash for 6-8 minutes while it is reflashing the bios, then stop flashing when it is complete. You were definitely getting that?

Let’s go though a few things in the manual you linked above:

  • Page 20 - the 8 pin ATX power connector, top right on the board… Make certain that you are using the right cable here. The 8 pin ATX power connector often looks almost identical to the 8 pin PCIE power connectors that you connect to graphics cards. Corsair is pretty good about stamping labels on the cable ends that connect to the board. Make sure it says “CPU” or something like that, and definitely not PCIE. The pin assignments are different, so one will not work in place of the other, even though they may fit. Also make sure it’s in the right port on the power supply side.

  • Page 21 top - I don’t know what this EXT_PWR connector is for, or if you need it connected. It looks like it’s on your M2 board. Did your motherboard come with a cable to connect this? You may need this to power the M2 NVME drives because of the way they are connected through the daughterboard.

  • Just as a test I would remove that M2 board entirely and try a power on test and see if you get a POST screen. It’s possible your POST is getting into a state where it crashes trying to determine what is on the M2 board if the M2 board isn’t powered. This is a total guess, but the idea here is process of elimination. It should post without that M2 card in there.

  • Page 25 bottom - you have a speaker connection here. This will beep at you and should beep error codes during post if there are errors. Aside from the tiny pins that are hard to connect to, there’s nothing special about this. If you have any old little speaker around and some wire you could try to connect to this. If you can do that, a single beep will tell you that you’re making it through post. If not, it will beep an error code and then we’d have to find the beep code list somewhere.

  • Page 27 bottom and 28 top - CMOS clear. If you haven’t done this yet, do it. Reflashing the bios doesn’t necessarily clear the bios configuration data. I’ve had board fail to post and got them back working by going through the “clear CMOS” steps. I’d do the steps on p. 27 first. If you can find the little two pin jumper thing it refers to in the note at the bottom of the page, use that. If not, any metal object that can short the pins will do. A screwdriver, as it mentions, works fine. Unplug the computer, first, then short the pins for at least 10 seconds. Then try booting. Pulling out the little battery is also an option, but depending on the board that can be harder to do than you might think.

Other things:
To isolate the problem you’d like to start with as minimal a setup as possible. Before you pack everything up and mail it somewhere or drive 8 hours I’d make one last effort to go from a minimal setup and test one step at a time.

I’d clear the CMOS, remove one stick of RAM (so you have only one inserted), remove the M2 board, and have nothing but a USB keyboard and a monitor connected. If you can get a speaker connected to the speaker thing that would help, just because the beep codes will tell you what’s going on.

  • When you attempt to boot you want to start clicking that Delete key pretty quickly and don’t stop until it’s been at least 15 seconds. You’re just hoping to get the BIOS screen up, and the Delete key will tell it to go into the BIOS menu rather than attempting to boot up. The BIOS menus are typically 1080p graphics that any monitor or TV will sync to quickly, which isn’t always the case with the initial POST screens.

  • If that fails, try the other stick of RAM by itself.

If you’re still getting nowhere, it’s time to try a couple silly things that have an outside chance of working.

  • With your M2 board still out, try booting up with your Windows installation media in a USB port. Usually these have to be FAT32 formatted, and use one of the USB slots directly attached to the motherboard (e.g., not the ones on the front panel of the case). This is a real long shot, but who knows.

  • If that fails, and you have a graphics card, install it. Try getting it to post with the monitor connected to the graphics card. This shouldn’t make a difference, but it’s worth a shot. I’ve seen stranger things work.

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Thanks Vindes for all those suggestions.

Will work my way through them . Really appreciate your time looking through and writing such a detailed list of ideas.

I did see that external power header too. And wondered also. I noticed a cable in the box for the old style hard drive power connections…so I think it simply gives an option to send power out.

With the flashing it appears to work…flashes steadily. only takes about 3 mins though… then goes click… and everything turns off.

I also saw a post online about using a graphics card… so could be worth a shot… As is the cmos idea.

Thanks for all the ideas… Lots to try!