Confused by ASIO drivers!

Hi there,
I’m using an old Presonus Firebox from the mid 2000’s and am getting clicks and clacks wtih it…after running some latency tests it reports driver ssues.

So under the Device menu in GP I can choose Asio 4 All 2 as the device…and this actually seems to improve the error noises…seems fine then.

however now a new problem is introduced.

If I try to play back my Windows sound (from Youtube etc for practice) it no longer works…I have to go the Firebox mixer and change the channels to 5 and 6…then Windows sounds works…however this then stops my Gig Performer sounds playing on channels 1 and 2!

Sometimes too I get an “Audio Renderer error” from the browser then too…so choosing this ASIO 4 ALL 2 device in GP seems to corrupt the Windows audio.

Thus to get back to both Youtube and GP working…I have to use the old Firebox driver…which introduces clicks and clacks back in.

Other than upgrading to a Motu M4 or something…I’m not sure what I should do! Any clues! Thanks.

I can’t recommend m-audio FireWire enough. I have 3 and they are all 2000’s era. Never had a problem with them and no clicks with 1.3 millesecond latency. Granted I have a high powered windows machine but that’s been my experience. M-audio 410”s go for $25 to $50 on eBay.

M-Audio has their own drivers so there’s no messing with asio4all.

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Do you have the latest Presonus driver for it? Looks like the last update was 2016 ( FireBox | Downloads | PreSonus ) and you have to select Windows 7 to get a download option.

If you can get that installed, I wouldn’t use ASIO 4 All. I’d use the native Presonus driver.

Unfortunately, Firewire on Windows tends to be problematic even if you get recent drivers installed. It really hasn’t been supported for a long time, and different Firewire chipsets may work better or worse than others under newer versions of Windows.

Putting those issues aside, if the issue you’re having is the clicks and pops only start happening when you try to play both GP and YouTube at the same time then there could be a number of different things causing that problem. If that’s the problem, the I’d: 1) check that the windows audio sample rate and the rate you have set in GP are the same [generally 44.1khz]; 2) raise the sample buffer size to something like 512 to see if it helps; 3) instead of YouTube try a source like an MP3 stored locally and played with Windows Media Player or something like that. When you introduce network streaming into the equation you’re introducing another potential source of glitches.

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Thanks for that… had a look and couldn’t see any in Australia… one in Japan for $200 aud

have my eye on the Motu M4… seems like it might be time for an upgrade after 18 years or so!

I’m pretty sure the Firebox driver is the latest… interestingly when I play through the Firebox with other Asio or Windows drivers… the clicks are certainly better… So think the interface might be my first upgrade target… then can consider a new PC


I think this could be the issue… but perhaps also playing YouTube through it might be an issue… could try just inputting through a gp/Firebox input channel from my phone for practicing… that’s an idea

(Interestingly though changing the driver to some other Asio or Windows ones was better… but then introduced latency drag)

My laptop is this:

Sager 2011 7280np
Intel i7 950 @ 3.07 ghz (desktop CPU in there!)
12gb Ram
Primary Hard drive is SSD

Anyway might be time to first get a new interface then build out a portable Windows desktop build that I can gig with in a mini ITX case!


I guess I will add my long winded 2-cents worth as I have recently been through something similar to your experience and have done a lot of testing with some surprising (to me) results.

First and foremost, with one of the late Windows 10 builds and everything with Windows 11, Microsoft moved to enforcing compliance with the TPM (Trusted Platform Module) and Secure Boot for UEFI firmware requirements. One of the effects was a change in Driver signing enforcement which broke many of the existing drivers that were in use, including audio drivers that our favorite audio hardware companies had developed and released for their products over the years. In many cases their attempts to update their drivers for older equipment leave much to be desired. You can tell what a pickle this is when you go to a manufacture’s support page, they supposedly have a new driver available which was release this year but the operating system support only goes up to W8.1 or similar. Cue the alarm bells. In my case, a lot of testing with my legacy products, even if new stock (but developed and released to market 12 years ago for example), had problems or just didn’t work. All of the new equipment I tested - as in released in the past 2 years - had no issues whatsoever. In other words, when software, especially drivers which run at low kernel levels, run up against these new security initiatives, various problems can be expected unless they were written specifically for the new computing initiative.

On top of that, many of the audio devices are really sophisticated and can demand that the user really understands how they work (audio flow) and how the various Windows audio software works and interfaces with these external devices. Windows can be quite picky on the configuration settings (“Sound” in Settings, and sometimes you also need to know your way around the “More Sound Settings” in the “Sound” tab). Microsoft has been migrating these and many of the other applet management features into one central Settings location, but its a work in progress and Sound is in that bucket. Fortunately, if and when you do get a handle on understanding your devices and the way they work with Windows it gets to be quite easy to set it all up and have it work.

As for Asio4All, my direct experience is the drivers work exceptionally well with W11 - but they are still generic. Their website specifically states that you should try your manufacturer provided drivers first as they should be tailored to your audio manufacturer’s hardware as well as Windows software and whatever hardware manufacture you use for the metal, but if they don’t, or you like the extended options available with Asio4All, then these drivers are an excellent choice. There are even some ancient Asio drivers that work as well today as they did in the prehistoric times they were written, like Asio Link Pro. The moral of the story is in my experience its problems with drivers and specific audio hardware implementation that render them problematic or unusable. As a final example, I absolutely loved my Roland Octacapture UA-1010 audio interface, but despite my knowledge and experience with Windows configuration settings and trying it with other generic drivers I never could get it to work right. Some of my other gear took some tweaking, and some (all the new stuff) were just seamless out of the box, but the UA-1010, which got better or worse depending on drivers and configuration settings, never ever worked in W11 without having some audio issue.

In all of the testing, no problem ever sourced back to GP. Nor did it make any difference with respect to the hardware platform. My 7 year old Intel NUCs worked as well as my new purpose built mini-ITX high power audio workstation. The thing that broke it was W11, or more specifically, W10 starting with one of the last updates that introduced the TPM/Secure Boot implementation.

Sorry for the long explanation but hope it helps you figure it out. My summary and advice, if it’s possible, is to get a new - as in first released for sale this year or last year - audio device that was specifically designed for W11. If you can’t, it becomes more of a crapshoot but fortunately many of the community can tell you what works for them on W11. I would highly recommend you provide specific information on your minimum requirements for your audio device and what you would require for expansion, if needed. Then you can make an informed decision of the minimum level interface that you would be in the market for when one of the community members offers a recommendation.

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Thanks so much for the comprehensive reply!

That all makes sense.

It all sounds like I’m best off focusing on the audio interface first… May even find my old Sager behemoth still works fine…

When I experimented with different Asio drivers or even direct windows drivers it did seem to improve things

Do you have any thoughts on the Motu M4.?

It seems to be a well respected bang for buck option…

A more recent device that should be fine as per what you explained?

Reviews like this from Julian go into all manner of tests… some making my eyes glaze over .

When I consider I’ve got a ‘nearly working’ system with a 2004 era interface and an 11 year old laptop… can probably justify a new upgrade! Have really got a good run out of the old Firebox.

Thanks again for your comments… much appreciated!

Maybe one of the other community members is using the Motu M2/M4 on Windows 11 will read this and will reply about their experiences. It was first released in 2019 which puts it in the near modern era, so my guess would be that it would work well. If you order from Amazon of other similar vendor you can often return the purchase if it doesn’t work with no penalty or shipping charge.

I was kind of shocked that the best behaved interface that I had and tested was the Behringer UMC404HD. Since I do all of the fancy stuff with audio processing on my PC, all the fancy features and built in capabilities and bundled software apps that some manufacturers include with their devices are superfluous for me, and I probably am not as picky as a super audiophile so the Behringer product is just fine - and inexpensive. Others may need more though, and they will choose whatever works best for them.

Bottom line, I strongly agree with your statement about getting your interface sorted out with W11 before deciding what else you’d like to do or change. As I said above, it’s possible to purchase and return something these days without a penalty if it doesn’t work out from some vendors, the best of all worlds. Hopefully someone who has a Motu2/4 and uses it with W11 will also reply and tell you about their experiences.

I had both, the Behringer and the Motu M2 and can’t tell anything bad about neither of them… but on windows 10.
Currently i use a very small Focusrite Scarlett Solo… it was just the size why i changed the Motu for this.

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I suppose you have the 3rd gen., is the ASIO driver multi-client?

So good ole’ MS made a (temporary) liar out of me overnight! One of their bigger updates, now called ‘Moments’ (no kidding), got installed last night. And ----- all audio flow and output from my Behringer stopped working. Panic time (not really - I don’t have the pressures of ‘having’ to perform :slight_smile: ) and I thought I’d have to roll my system back to my last restore point. One thing I’ve learned over the years is it often helps to power down all of the plugged in auxiliary devices, unplug/replug everything, power it all back up again and retry. Everything worked again after that.

For those of you that have an interest, it’s interesting to see just what these updates do sometimes. When you read the KB articles on them you get the high level descriptions on what the update is, but you don’t get the details of what and how the update module installer actually does the work so I have included a few screen shots below. Besides the updated program(s), a LOT of things get uninstalled and reinstalled following various module updates and installations. It basically means there are a lot of breaks made which are not necessarily restored just because you restart your computer. If you run into a problem like this and before you decide to tear your hair out or other drastic actions, unplug, replug, reseat, repower anything and everything that you have connected to your computer, and do a COLD REBOOT (which clears all memory and ram) of your computer.

Windows has persistence these days to speed up booting times, so it does not clear everything in memory between boots, even though you do a power off/power on cycle from the switch on the front of your computer (or wherever it is installed) to reboot. Either cycle the switch on your power supply, unplug/replug the power cord to your computer, or give it the three fingered salute at the appropriate time (ctrl-alt-dlt - hard to do these days!).


I have an M-audio 1810 interface that I would gladly part with for free for you if you pay postage. I have 2 m-audios 410s which I use and don’t need the 1810.

Keep in mind if you upgrade to a USB-C interface, that USB is not synchronous like FireWire is. FireWire works great with VSTs and can run at very low sample rates without glitches. I believe USB-C is better for audio (singing, guitars, etc.) but don’t quote me on that.

Even though some fire wire interfaces are old, many of them run like tanks.



And why it died, compliments of Apple who, to be fair, was in dire financial straits at the time and looking for ways to generate more revenue. Worth a read.

The tragedy of FireWire: Collaborative tech torpedoed by corporations | Ars Technica.

Thanks for all the discussion and suggestions… Really interesting!

I don’t really understand all the deep technical points of the various pieces of the puzzle…

I do know my 2004 era FireWire Firebox with my 2011 Sager is giving me clicks clacks and pops on big pad sounds!

On a superficial level it makes sense to me that the Motu M4 has a lot better chance of being supported and working in terms of drivers… Even though it’s not totally convincing on their site! “Appears”!

MOTU and Windows 11
Are you thinking about upgrading to Windows® 11? Have you already made the jump? Current versions of all MOTU software products and hardware drivers available at Download | (latest versions only) appear to be compatible with Windows 11, although final compatibility testing is still on-going.

In some cases, MOTU software updates may be available soon to achieve 100% compatibility. Check frequently for further announcements in the near future.

(Motu website)

Versus discontinued firebox.

So I think I’ll start with the Motu…

Seems a positive review from Brett here!


Thanks for the kind offer… appreciate it…are you in Australia?

Will see what postage would be.

I’m probably about to just go with a new Motu…but will check out postage price…

watching the various videos Motu seems like a nice unit and an probably ready for an upgrade… I’m a sucker for pretty lights too;)

Certainly an interesting read… I was always using FireWire… mainly for capturing mini DV… Have kept a couple old laptops so I can still capture the old tapes.

I remember for video it was just considered much better than USB… and it was probably just us video and music people that have kept it alive!

Thanks again for all your info!

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Well just an update here… Motu M4 arrived… and on first go I still had clicks pops… horrible distortion… and I thought this is a disaster! Then I restarted… swapped out USB cable… Turned off monitoring on 1 & 2… and something in that mix made it all go away… and it is now running beautifully… with no clicks pops etc The theory seems right… my old Presonus driver has probably just got too long in the tooth! Will see how we go over coming days… but so far an upgrade to a new interface has done the trick and my old faithful Sager still lives! (While my equally faithful Firebox has sadly gone into retirement!) Thanks for all the advice!

It also shows Gig Performer can indeed run very lean with a laptop from 2011!

But I’d say you were right… the newer drivers on a newer interface make a big difference! Thanks all!


Isn’t this forum amazing?…!