Beginner's question about using OSC on gigs

I’m just looking at using OSC with GP and I have a couple of questions:

  1. How do you guarantee that you will have wireless communications at a gig? Do you set up your own wireless router?

  2. It seems very risky to depend on a wireless network for communicating between you OSC app and GP during a gig. Aren’t you adding a whole slew of possible points of failure?

Maybe I’m missing something here. Any and all responses are welcome.

Thanks,

Ezra

I am using OSC to comunicate between Ableton Live and Gig Performer running on the same machine.
So I need no wireless connection.
But when I would need it, I would use my own router.

1 Like

@ezraherman, your OSC/GP setup shouldn’t rely on a third party network, make sure it is your own private network.
As @pianopaul mentioned, the network you use can be limited to your own local host if the app you want to make communicate via OSC are hosted on a unique computer (e.g. IP 127.0.0.1 for every OSC components and a different port for each). If you are scared about WiFi jamming in a venue (because of many bad experiences, I am :fearful: ), you can perhaps use an Ethernet cable between your hosts. I feel better with an Ethernet adapter on my iPad that also has the advantage to keep it charging at the same time. But, of course you can (take the risk to) use a WiFi connection, but then bring your own secured router.
The regular OSC settings in the GP menu, allow you to communicate between to OSC entities, or more exactly between two different UDP ports because thanks to “broadcast” IP adresses (i.e. xxx.xxx.xxx.255, e.g. 192.168.1.255) you can send OSC messages to “everything” within your subnetwork). Furthermore using GP script, you can even extend these possibilities to even more host IP.
Have fun with GP and OSC :wink:

1 Like

I’ve been doing 7 years now. I used to just use a little linksys WiFi router. These days I use a Ubiquiti Amplifi, more expensive but rock solid. As long as it’s near you, it should be fine

1 Like

That’s right, if your signal is stronger than others you are more secure. And it is even better with routers monitoring simultaneously several frequencies to switch to the best one in real time. But, it has a cost, while you can find used iPad Ethernet adapter for 10 bucks.

1 Like

Thanks to all for the responses. I’ll use wireless for testing and if I like it I imagine I’ll invest in a iPad ethernet adapter.

One minor follow up: is there an appreciable difference in the learning curves between Lemur and TouchOsc? Any other clients I should be looking at?

-Ezra

Lemur has a builtin scripting language and you can build templates on the iPad.
Touch OSC needs an editor on your Mac or Windows machine.
It also has no scripting language.

1 Like

Thanks. Is one easier to get started on than the other in terms of using it with GP? I don’t mind switching when I get more accomplished and need more functionality.

Lemur is more flexble than touch osc, but the price is higher

1 Like

Lemur allows such things as changing text labels on the fly, showing and hiding widgets depending on whether they are being used in a particular song, displaying different part names for different songs. TouchOSC can’t do any of that, it’s totally static other than showing the position of knobs and sliders

1 Like

The GP template for Lemur is perfect to start with OSC and GP.

1 Like

@ezraherman,

In my experience, the biggest challenge comes to latency issues more than reliability issues. We’ve been using a private WIFI network for communication between iPads and our soundboard for customizing in-ear mixes as well as from a tablet to a PC for remote control of our light show for the last few years. We have yet to have the network completely down in any given situation, but we have been in rooms where latency of wireless networking is more pronounced. As a result, anything I NEED triggered via networking for my own rig either is fully wired networking, or I have some type of wired configuration as a backup in the case that wireless fails. Here are my reccomendations for ANY wireless networking action having to do with your rig.These are also general rules for WIFI for any gig related gear (soundboards, lighting, etc…)

  1. Do NOT use the 2.4 GHZ band if it can at all be avoided. While certainly it is more ubiquitous and has longer range than 5GHZ, the lack of fewer channels for 2.4GHZ along with the massive saturation of 2.4 GHZ routers at or near virtually any venue we play at make it a recipe for communcations to fail at inopportune times.

  2. Always use the 5GHZ if at all possible. This means making sure that any WIFI devices you are going to use need to support this band as well. See number one for more reasoning

  3. Expect more latency over wireless than wired networking. If you the purpose you are networking and controlling something for requires absolute real-time communication, wireless is a poor choice due to the additional complexities and more brittle nature of WIFI.

  4. If you have a wireless controller, have a backup strategy for that particular usage in case your wireless communication fails. An example for me is that I use a Alesis Vortex 2 wireless keytar. Since the wireless communication on this device is on the 2.4 GHZ band (this is how it is built, I have no other option here) then sometimes in certain venues, it will not work as anticipated. As a result, anything I would assign to the Vortex has an alternative mapping on one of my wired controllers on my keyboard stands. It’s also handy if you have a good spot at the end of a song to take off the keytar and switch back to your keyboards on your rig at the end of a song so you can jump into the next one that you don’t use the keytar on :slight_smile:

X

2 Likes

I’m also totally new to the wireless concept, although I know MIDI well.
The vibes I am getting is that lemur is pretty long in the tooth nowadays and other products seem to have taken over. What are my options and what will it cost me to run MIDI commands remotely from an Android or secondary Windows platform?

Which product? :thinking:

It’s up to you to decide, but the purpose of OSC is not only to transmit MIDI over an IP network, but also to remotely control an app from another app.

" It is currently discontinued in light of competition from current multitouch input computers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur_Input_Device

TouchOSC seems very popular.

I’m looking at having a tablet over the keyboards rig rather than fiddling directly with a laptop.

I think you’re mixing up different things there.

The device you linked is a hardware device. I’m not surprised that’s discontinued. I never knew that thing even existed, but apparently that was the inspiration for the Lemur app.

Lemur is an OSC app for tablets and phones. TouchOSC is another similar app. Personally I’ve only used Open Stage Control for OSC. I don’t think Lemur or OSC are going away any time soon.

I’ve tried using my Surface Pro as a control surface using OSC, but I find it generally unsatisfying to use. I still prefer physical knobs and faders.

OSC is certainly not going away. However, the IIine folks don’t ever seem to respond to anything so it’s unclear to me whether Lemur is still supported. I’ve certainly run into a few bugs and never heard back from anyone there…and that’s over several years now.

It is true for the hardware version, but the tablet app is there, and it is much better than TouchOSC in my opinion, even if there is apparently no more support:
https://liine.net/en/products/lemur/

And here is the GP template for Lemur:
https://gigperformer.com/downloads/osctemplates/GigPerformerWithSongsAndContainers.jzml.zip

Right, so they actually made a hardware pad that has since been superceded by phones and pads.
I’m totally new to this. I assume then that OSC is the transmission/wireless protocol and Lemur is a presentation format to control devices? Is it now open source, or still owned by Liine?

So if I had a bluetooth or wireless capable laptop and phone with the Lemur app, and this template installed on GP, would I be in business, or is there more?

I’ve actually always fancied a Surface Pro.
I know what you mean about knobs and switches, but needs must and all that, and having unlabelled controllers everywhere becomes a total head****. I am also using Show Cue System, and the plan is for the whole band to all have phones or tablets to give visual cues etc, (things like countdowns, BPM, beat/bar and next song). They sure beat set lists gaffer taped to monitor wedges. :slight_smile: