If you ask me - a professional keyboardist earns for living exclusively from playing and his music work - regarding “hardware workstations vs MIDI controllers + VST hosts”.
Many (most) people terribly fail to realize that exactly all those “hardware workstations” are exactly that - midi controlers with terribly underpowered miniature CPU’s, and even more terrible system and hardware limitations. For example - Korg Kronos is still based on the same x86 arhitecture from Oasys - meaning it can not adress more than 4 GB of RAM, with many system bugs from Oasys still present. Montage M uses Texas Instruments Sitara CPU, which is, compared to today’s technology standards, already ancient 40 nm litography.
All in all, although they are all called “hardware workstations” - the ugly truth is that they are nothing but midi controllers with crippled hardware under the hood which is around 20 years behind in technology world.
And regarding the comparison of the sound of VST platforms vs “hardware”. As someone who works in studio for almost 2 decades, let me tell you this - it can not even be compared. I fully understand that some people are “in love” with their Yamahas, Korgs, Rolands or Nords, or whatever - that is their choice. But it doesnt change the fact that all those “top notch hardware babayagas” sound like thin broken toys when they are on the same stage where my custom made workstation is present, one on one, on the same sound systems. From small gigs for 200 people to arenas with 20.000 people.
Btw, I have done more than 100 gigs since I finished it last year, and Gig Performer had zero fails, system had zero fails. And no, my Avenger M+ is not light weight at all - its 30,3 kg. And I carry it every single gig without complaining.
Having heard 1000’s of recordings using hardware synths, seen 1000’s of keyboard players using hardware synths ill go with what I hear. Never thought of the likes of a Montage M as sounding like thin broken toys.
You love what you have, thats great, and GP is a fantastic system to use, but knocking those that love something else, thats tried and tested in modern music, well, I have to just take it with a pinch of salt.
To be clear, it’s the sound reference im talking about, not the versatility offered by GP, which it totally agree with you on.
I don’t think he is arguing that they are objectively thin-sounding. My sense is he is arguing that they sound thin relative to how he has approached his system.
To give perhaps a simple example, suppose you have a physical Minimoog where we all know one can create awesome thick sounds using those three great oscillators, with the lower octaves very slightly detuned.
But in a software environment, I can instantiate five virtual Minimoogs and now I have 15 oscillators to play with. As you can imagine, you can get some real “oomph” out of that that simply can’t be achieved with physical hardware (unless you buy five Minimoogs!)
When I was touring with Security Project years ago, we used to play Biko (written by Peter Gabriel) and I did the solo using a bagpipe patch that I had for Kontakt. But I instantiated that library three times and arranged for each one to be just very slightly out of tune with the others. The resulting sound was just tremendous, almost shocking and incredibly powerful.
Workstations are very powerful, no question, but they can’t compete with the CPU power and RAM you can leverage on a decent laptop.
Yeah, I totally get and agree with all that. The ability to sound design in GP is way above what any single hardware keyboard can do, and as you with the right hardware () there isnt anything you cant do with it.
Taking your analogy. A MM has 3 oscillators. It’s got a sound and it’s a sound we all recognise. Now, layering 5 of them will most certainly make it something else, but it’s not going to sound like a MM, thats sound design IMO. The MM will not suddenly sound broken and not usable next to the 5 layer version.
I get what you are saying about Kontact etc. I find every brass patch I use I have to layer it with at least one or two others to get the sound I have in my head. You can do this with a hardware workstation as well though. Most, if not all have the ability to layer sounds, my MODX up to 8. ok, the note limitations would hit hard and its not something I would do, but I can for instance layer 8 Mini Moog samples and get a huge tone.
Anything (when I say anything, I mean “hardware” from big corporations) can be made to sound pristine. My Modx sounds pristine. Montage too. Does it mean it sounds amazing? No. And it can not sound amazing because (almost) all of them (“hardware” workstations) are limited by design, and that is samples on chip. I will take acoustic pianos for example. All those (sample based) sounds in those machines are squashed samples on a chip, with basic, primitive layering. If you check how it reacts from velocity 1 to 127, you will clearly hear how samples repeat themselves. Already dead. Done. Same as decades ago. Compared to any serious vst sample library, which has hundreds and thousands of samples with Round Robin - it indeed does sound like a toy. Not even to mention vst-s which are modelling based. That can not be compared. Not in a dream. And it is the same thing for any acoustic instrument. There is no depth, there is no proper articulations, no life. Straight, dead line. Where “hardware” synths can be amazing - its synth sounds and their engines which do not have anything to do with samples or modelling (there are exceptions). And again, even that can be multiplied time x in a plugins environment like Gig Performer. On top of that, FX sections are at least mediocre, in most of them. And on top of that all - AD/DA conversion.
I agree that we are listening to thousands of songs made with hardware synths - thats how it was done in the past. Same as guitars - people had walls of amps. Today? I dont think so. Nowadays, in the studio, with all the vsts existing - using a hardware workstation for “sound” is same as shooting in own leg. And yes, people do use “hardware workstations” live because there is no other choice. All the manufacturers do care about is profit and squeezing literally every single penny from the same things they already sold years ago, over and over again. That is the fact, not an opinion.
You mention a few things as being fact. Please link me to your data for this, not just opinions. Opinions are a personal thing, facts are facts. Let’s see those facts.
No choice from hardware manufacturers. People can buy exactly what they make, and are limited to that. If they seek for more - they jump on the vst train.
Musician have two choices. Go for synths that big manufactures make (Korg, Roland etc), trust the brands and be satisfied with that (which is perfectly fine) or try to go vst route and explore “the unknown”. If they lack knowledge or are scared to have a pc/laptop on stage, they have no other choice than to use the usual workstations widely available. Hope you get my point know.
I disagree - musicians can have a hybrid setup with both hardware synths and plugins. We refer to that as a hybrid setup and Gig Performer makes it really easy to configure this kind of environment.
Some education may be required so that musicians without much (or any) technical skills can feel comfortable
Marty Wade recently created a great video to how to create a hybrid setup with Gig Performer as the main “hub”
Of course they can, and I would recommend to anyone interested in vst platform to start exactly like that. I believe in your area people approach many things differently.
In my area, it is different. People are less educated about those things, and if it is a talk about plugins world, the computer has to be mac - no discussion (needs no drivers and never crashes) and the host has to be mainstage (they v seen someone somewhere using it). Anyway, by “musician” I mean the ones from where I live.
Yamaha Montage M has Hamburg Grand (one of their best and most complex piano sounds in Montage series). That performance is made of 11 waveforms (one waveform can contain up to 256 individual samples). 10 waveforms represent all the dynamic and timbre in 10 different velocity levels. 11-th waveform is key off noise sample. Since its AWM2 engine - it is limited to 128 (stereo) notes of polyphony.
No round robin.
No microphone positions.
Compressed samples strictly tied to exact velocity values. It is how it works.
Those are facts, written and documented.
The whole Montage ESP takes around 11 GB disc size.
VST. Lets take a look at some of that data to compare.
C7 Piano from Keyscape. With 32 dynamic velocity layers per key. And round robin. And 52 GB of uncompressed samples on disc.
Or, Chroma Grand Piano, with 23 velocity layers, 54 round robins per sound and 4 mic positions, taking 11 GB on disc.
Heck, even NI Noire (one of my favourites) which does not have round robin at all, has 22 dynamic layers per key and takes 16 GB on disc.
All this, even without mentioning GigPerformer, possibilities it provides and existing tools to shape sound even further. Thats universe of its own.
You can disagree with my opinion, which is perfectly fine. But my opinion is backed by the exact data you asked for, and I provided it. And that is just scratching the surface.
) there isnt anything you cant do with it.
