Fully agreed. Never buy a windows notebook before trying LatencyMon.
I had extremely bad experience with a powerful gaming notebook that had terrible performance in LatencyMon. The only solution was to sell it!
Fully agreed. Never buy a windows notebook before trying LatencyMon.
I would like to share a link with you regarding some interesting technical details about windows pc/laptops.
Basically what this guy explains is, the way windows and manufacturers integrate the hardware (low level drivers and its performance), can lead to high DCP calls, meaning breaks in audio, no matter how fast a cpu in a single core or how many cores it has
Time ago there was some intel 10 gen laptop made by xmg brand
These laptops were optimized for very low latency (less than 2 ms) so it could be comparable with some mac for real time audio. But looks like the new cpu generations have made some changes on the micro architecture and does not allow some optimization for audio performance.
I have had different laptops and i can say that i have been lucky with the latency, and those models have never been top performers. But even a gaming laptop that are meant to be good performers (for gaming) can have problems by handling real time audio
The moral of the day for me now is “go for a mac”
I hope it makes sense.
Exactly my experience. I had an Asus i7 of 7th generation and it was good. Not perfect but good enough. This led me to buy an MSI with i7 11th generation, and it was a disaster.
So I switched to MacBookPro and I am quite happy.
Video is not accessible from Italy. Can you give me some details to look for it?
If you are asking details about specs , it will be almost impossible.
Part of the troubleshooting in windows is to locate what driver has high dcp’s with software like latencymon. You need to run your desire audio software and latencymon to monitor the drivers performance. If you are lucky, and if you fond the problematic driver, maybe a driver update or even a bios update will solve the issue.
The last resource that can help people looking for windows laptops is the next link that l forgot to share
This site is the only one that reports the overall system latency on windows devices.
I hope the moderators take a look to it and maybe prepare and pin a topic about the windows laptops, as it will be very helpful for everyone in the future.
I was trying to get access to the video you posted. In Italy I cannot access to it.
Your further contribution is useful anyway
If you are really interested to watch the video, i am uploading it to my youtube account, but because is not my video, i am sharing it only to the people that has the next link.
Its only for your information and interest. No idea why is blocked in Italy.
Now I got it
Many many many thanks!
This video is an excellent explanation. It should probably be pinned someplace and be required viewing for anyone looking for hardware advice!
I’m running GP on an old (2017) HP Zbook with dual-Xeon processors. I bouth this refurbished and put an M.2 boot drive in it. It works very well, it’s very low latency and I run some very audio system resource heavy plugins on it. It’s also my midi-hub, all my midi devices plug directly into it via USB. My audio interface is a Motu M4 and this plugs into the thunderbolt ports and works very well. Zero issues with this old computer (except the battery life which is because of the P5000 GPU in the computer).
For PC laptops, I’d see if the builder/seller is willing to run LatencyMon on it before you purchase it. A company like Boxx, Origin, Razar, etc… might offer that up as a pre-sales option.
And of course, if you are buying a machine for GP and some DAW useage, be sure you can return the computer if it doesn’t test well when you recieve it. Have your ducks in a row and configure it ASAP, test with latencymon, test it to the level of latency you are happy with, etc… If it doesn’t pass with flying colors, return it.
And a note about Macs vs. PC’s, etc… Apple also adjusts a lot of stuff under the hood so that the processors are not always running at full strength and they change things in the firmware to keep you from actually metering what the processor is truely doing so this is not unique to PC builders.
I agree. Very well explained.
There are basically no reviewers using latencymon in laptop reviews.
The only source that usually reports latencys is, as i already linked before, the notebook check site:
It could be useful to pin this site as well, cause it might guide to buyers the right equipment.
Hiya. I agree too that this would be invaluable in the Tips and Tricks category and also included in the Hacks compilation. Useful for both desktop and laptop users, HOWEVER - the statement on the XMG Audio website is really significant - e.g. “The introduction of Modern Standby and related changes to power management architecture on laptops are making it impossible for us – and as a matter of fact, for every other manufacturer – to release a laptop and genuinely call it “audio-optimized” at this point. This is in no way related to Windows 11 itself, which the new machines will be running – it’s due to changes on hardware level that need to be adapted to step by step.”
Extrapolating from the XMG explanation, it would appear that the core issue is how these laptop manufacturers are implementing power management architecture on their hardware, and according to XMG, there isn’t a solution. The first stop for new PC laptop buyers should be the Latency ranking list backed up by being able to run latencymon on a prospective new purchase if possible. Also of note is that XMG and a number of other manufacturers do have current audio processing PCs for sale, but all are desktops!
On a related note, I have seen a number of papers and publications recently on the new Apple silicon and AMD architecture. RISC is having a revival - who would have predicted that after all these years. Some of the most impressive videos were on comparing smart phones for real time audio and video processing and noteworthy that some of the phones blew the performance doors off some pretty high end laptop and desktop offerings. In particular, the new Apple silicon architecture has a definite design advantage with respect to audio processing IMO. If you are going to use a laptop as a dedicated device, I would suggest that Apple products deserve a good look for this purpose at the current time. All I’ve ever had is PC products for many decades other than my current iPad, but if for nothing else than to give them a try, my next device will definitely be an Apple product, maybe later this year. Some of the new monitors have absolutely seamless KVM capabilities built in enabling a user to have his or her cake and eat it too.
Exactly my experience. New i7 CPUs on notebook have bios that prevent stopping energy management that insert idle cycles. This is terrific on audio (big bumps) and you have no way to control that.
I tried several tricks inside windows registry, buy old tricks don’t work and I wasn’t able to find new one working.
@David-san Now that you’ve been using the Geekom for a while, what are your thoughts on the quality and performance of their device? I’m considering one of their new i7 12th gen boxes for a new music platform and would appreciate your input. Thank you.
I use it with 64Gb RAM and a 2Tb SSD. For now it is simply perfect to me.
Which model do you have?
So far , so good with the Lenovo Thinkpad 16:
Processor 12th Generation Intel® Core™ i9-12900HX Processor (E-cores up to 3.60 GHz P-cores up to 5.00 GHz)
Selectable Memory 64 GB DDR5-4800MHz (SODIMM) - (4 x 16 GB)
Caveat. I am not pushing this too hard (using it as a back up for my older Dell XPS (with 32 GB ram). But, it does show less ram and cpu use when using the same rackspaces. Also, for some reason there was one plugin the Lenovo would not allow to be used (did not get through scan. I never figured that out, even with David going to extraordinary lengths to help me. THANKS again!).
I also like that I can expand up to 128 GB of ram if necessary.
I have not tried to set CPU at 5.0, but I think it is an option. I just leave default. (But I have tried to implement the “easier” suggestions on the GP Optimization Guide).
I do not feel I have enough tech skills to put together my own and I do like laptop layout of having a screen attached.
So, throwing this out there…with caveats.
@jeffn1 I have a Lenovo P17 that I’m very happy with. Just wondering which plugin you couldn’t load.
This is the one I have a problem with: (SIM-BP)- by Quilcom
You can download it from here: http://flowstoners.com/quilcom
It didn’t hurt anything. But, I could not get it through the vst plug in scan. But it works fine on my older laptop (Dell XPS 13).
David was great trying to help, but even he couldn’t figure it out.
It was discussed in this thread:
(Despite the title, it was not a Windows 11 issue. It worked on other people’s computers with Windows 11).
I am curious if if works for in your Lenovo. (Actually, I think the Thinkpad 16P might have replaced the Thinkpad 15 and 17?).
Or even better if you figure out what the problem is. Hah!
I installed SIM-BP. The User Guide contains ZERO installatioin info. I created a folder called Quilcom containing the 64-bit .DLL file and the Presets folder, and moved that into my VSTPlugins folder. I ran the plugin manager in GP, which successfully scanned the plugin, which I was able to instantiate. It took me a minute to find it because GP listed it under “Rex Basterfield” and not “Quilcom”. His SIM-BP YouTube video was informative.
That GUI is hard to read on my 17" 4K display. It takes up most of the vertical space, but has a tiny font.
I think that you are correct about the P16 replacing the P17. I have a Gen 1. They released a Gen 2 the following year and now replaced that with a 16" display. The P17 replaced the P70, which had over-heating issues. I don’t have those, but the fan noise can get pretty intense sometimes. My power management profile is locked to the one Lenovo shipped it with.
Since that plugin installed and ran on my P17, I can’t help with fixing it on yours.
My P17 specs: i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD (1 TB internal, 3 x 2 TB external (1 TB3 and 2 USB3.2)) Windows 11 Pro (latest update), 4K OLED display, ThinkPad TB3 Gen 2 WorkStation Dock
Not sure that I’d recommend the P17 for live gigging. It’s a beast, but it’s a great desktop replacement for studio use.
Okay, thanks for checking.