Second instance suddenly quit receiving MIDI

Odd problem. I have a second instance of GP running so I can layer certain sounds controlled by the same keyboard. I’ve used this setup for quite a while now with no recent issues, but suddenly, while playing, the second instance suddenly quit receiving MIDI. I closed and reopened the instance, still no MIDI being received (I checked the plugin and pressing on the virtual keyboard with the mouse played back fine, but no MIDI messages go into it). I then closed out of both instances of GP and reopened, still no MIDI going to 2nd instance. I restarted the computer. Same problem.

I’m running Windows 10. The main instance has a rack Where the MIDI In from my piano-keyboard is routing to both by my VST (Pianoteq) and to LoopBe MIDI Out. The second instance is setup with MIDI In (OMNI) feeding into my VST (a different Pianoteq instrument).

Any ideas why this would suddenly quit working??

LoopBe1 includes the possibility of muting the loopback output (also, by default it does that automatically when the message rate passes a certain threshold). Did you check for that?

To do so: Just right click on the LoopBe1 icon in the right of the task bar.

This isn’t going to directly answer your question, but might be helpful.

I remember you went through a whole multi-client ASIO driver thing before. The same multi-client driver issue exists with MIDI drivers.

The default Windows 10 “class compliant” midi driver is NOT multi-client. So, for example, if I just plug in my Roland midi interface, my Roland vdrums, my MOTU passport midi interface, or my Behringer BCF windows will detect them all as midi interfaces and they will function. But they will get the Windows default midi driver, and they will all be non-multi-client. So they’ll all have that problem of whatever app grabs them first, it gets exclusive access.

However, the official Roland, Behringer, and MOTU drivers are all multi-client. Using those, I don’t need to go through any of the LoopBe MIDI stuff. I’m running Ableton and GP at the same time and they share access to my midi devices without a problem. Same for multiple instances of GP.

Because windows recognizes almost all USB midi interfaces as soon as you plug them in, a lot of people don’t bother installing the manufacturer drivers. As a result they end up with multi-client problems that they don’t have to have.

I’m starting to think this is an issue with my NI audio interface. It is multi-client and used to work with, say, Pianoteq running in standalone plus pianoteq running in GP at the same time.

My setup is a little confusing, because prior to buying yet another audio interface just for multi-client support, I had setup GP trying to get around that. I used LoopBe to send MIDI from select instrument Racks to an instrument in a second GP instance. This worked with Windows built-in MIDI (and obviously not great latency), but it didn’t work with ASIO4ALL or any of my many non-multi-client audio interfaces.

I got a NI audio interface just for multi-client support, and it worked great for a couple months…

One odd thing, I could load up two different MIDI programs as I mentioned, and the NI would work with both. But I still needed LoopBe to send MIDI to the 2nd instance of GP. That was actually nice because I didn’t want all of my instruments layered… but now that I think about it I don’t know why it worked that way in GP. I never bothered adjusting the MIDI routing in GP since it all worked once I got the NI and left things as I had them with LoopBe.

“LoopBe1 icon in the right of the task bar”

LoopBe doesn’t show on my task bar. I can open it up in GP but nothing about muting. I also don’t see it running in task manager.

What NI interface are you using, and what midi interface(s) are you using with what keyboard(s)?

Komplete Audio 1. It’s their smallest interface since I only need it for ASIO, but seems to share its basic hardware and driver with several interfaces (I reinstalled the driver twice, wiping it clean the second time).

My Keyboard is a Kawai MP8. At the time that the multi-client (MIDI) went out, I was also using a Yamaha expression pedal, which I’ve used quite a bit before (plugged into the Kawai).

Hmm. All I can say is probably what you already know.

I believe the Komplete Audio 1 has no MIDI ports, so I assume you’re running the MP8 midi to the PC through the MP8’s USB. Kawai uses the standard Windows class compliant MIDI driver, which is not multi-client capable.

Sounds like LoopBe1 must have been working before and for some reason isn’t now.

I haven’t used LoopBe1 in a long time, and never in GP, so I don’t think I can be much help there. What you describe seems like the right way to connect it in GP. The main instance should have MIDI in just for the MP8, and feed that to the VST and the LoopBe out. In the second instance I’d set that up with a MIDI in block that’s just LoopBe (rather than omni) but it should work either way.

One thing to make sure of is that in your main instance you’re not using an omni in midi block. If you accidentally have that as an omni in, and you feed it to the LoopBe out, it’s going to create a loop and LoopBe will automatically shut it down.

This doesn’t directly address your issue, but you know you can place multiple instances of Pianoteq in the same GP. I have some racks with two or three Pianoteq modules running in parallel, each with different presets and on overlapping keyboard splits.

Any chance that a Windows update happened? We’ve seen that play havoc with things on more than one occasion.

Yes, actually I think that must be correct about LoopBe not working. When you mentioned the feedback loop problem (which yes, I had that happen back when I first set everything up), I just tried to intentionally create a feedback loop with LoopBe by sending omni into it. It did nothing. Even sending omni into loopbe and then sending that back through loopbe did nothing. So it does seem like it isn’t working.

You’re correct about by MP8 going directly into the computer’s USB. Funny, it’s been a while, but I could have sworn I used Pianoteq standalone simultaneously with Pianoteq in GP… but after your explanation it doesn’t seem like that would have worked… I guess that’s of no consequence with this issue.

I suppose I could try removing and reinstalling LoopBe.

I can’t believe I didn’t think of this earlier… If it’s possible to set up, say, an expression pedal to only control one VST within the same rack, then I think this could cover what I’ve been using multiple GP instances for. That would be possible to set up right? I still have a lot to learn about MIDI and GP.

Hmm, it’s very possible this was the first time I used GP since windows updated… Still, it does seem odd that it would have been working for a while and then suddenly cut out while playing, doesn’t it?

Yes, that’s pretty easy.

Put two instances of Pianoteq next to each other on the layout. Add a midi filter block above one of them. In that midi filter, block whatever CC messages your expression pedal is using. Then just connect the lines as appropriate.

Regarding LoopBe1 muting itself… as soon as it detects a feedback loop, LoopBe1 will mute itself. When it does that it should be evident on its icon down in the icon tray at the bottom right. It might be hidden until you go looking for it, because Windows 10 likes to hide all those background process icons under the ^ symbol down at the bottom right.

If you click on that little up arrow thing and see the icons hidden in there, one of them should be for LoopBe1, and if you click on that (not sure if it’ll be a left click or right click) there will be a “Mute” option you need to uncheck. If you uncheck it and it checks itself again, there’s still a loop it doesn’t like.

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Ah, thanks. Before I was using a 2nd instance to layer instruments over instruments in the main instance. This was nice because it meant less racks. But no big deal, I’ll just create a new rack for every single combination.

There’s definitely no sign of LoopBe running. May it RIP.

Funny, immediately after writing that I wondered if I could bring it up from an executable file. Once I found it, it worked, and sure enough, it was muted…

And now that I think about it, that means my Yamaha expression pedal overloaded LoopBe. Can you adjust LoopBe’s sensitivity so it has fewer false positives?