Recall On Activate not always working

I have been hesitant to report this, as it was not something I was able to reproduce. But it has now happened often enough to be a definite issue for me. I have pretty much all my widgets set to “Recall On Load” and “Also Recall On Activate.” Most of the time when I change rack spaces, the widgets all change to their correct value. But every now and again I notice the expression pedal widget is at full volume,although the now value is something like 20.It could possibly be other widgets doing this as well but I haven’t noticed and I don’t think so… but the volume pedal is a real obvious one.

I noticed similar when the widget to be recalled was not checked “Ignore Variations”.
It has something to do with different recall values in different variations.

When you check “Ignore Variations” then it should work fine.

From a conceptual point of view, I must admit that this is not the clearest part of the software for me. I am in my first month of use, so I keep hoping that things will be clearer for me with the time :woozy_face: I will try to explain why I am not comfortable with the “ignore variations” option, and it seems that I am not alone…

  • Recall on Load” recalls, at loading time, the widget value captured with the save button, and without any other option checked, it is not recalled anymore later on when activating a rackspace/variation.
  • Recall on Activate” seem to does the same when activating a variation (even if the information of the checkbox is “Widget will be assigned this value whenever you switch to this rackspace”). This setting can be defined at variation level with possibly a different recall value and recall option set for each variation.
    e.g. of a Rhodes rackspace:
    -variation 1: Rhodes+chorus widget deactivated (recalled on activate)
    -variation 2: Rhodes+chorus widget activated with a specific speed (recalled on activate)
    -variation 3: Rhodes+chorus custom current activation state (not recalled on activate)
    So far I think it is clear for me, variation 1 is always recalled with chorus deactivated, variation 2 is always recalled with chorus activated at a specific speed, and variation 3 is recalled with the last settings.

But without opening the manual, what means “ignore variations” checked?
Is it that my chorus widget setting becomes uniquely defined at rackspace level whatever the variation ? When I check this option in one variation, it is set for all other variations of the rackspace and changes made to the “also recall on activate” checkbox are common to all variations, but recall values can still be different for each variation!? So how are these different variation recall values applied? Only once, when a variation is first activated when entering a rackspace, and then it keeps unchanged when changing to another variation within the same rackspace? I am confused.
When having a look at the “ignore variations” checkbox information, it is still confusing for me: “if activated - this widget’s value will not be stored/activated on variation change”: when is it stored/activated then ? Is it stored/activated at rackspace change level? But again which initial recall value applies when there is a different value for each variation?

I think I will have to continue thinking about it until it becomes really obvious to me… :thinking:

Also recall on activate–Gig Performer normally restores all widgets to the position they were last in when a rackspace is activated.Checking this button allows you to take a snapshot of the current position of the selected widget so that it is that position that gets loaded instead when the rackspace is again activated. The concept is that,even if you play around with widgetsduring the course of your live performance,when younextreturn to a rackspace, your originally stored valueswill return.

Yes, but which value is recalled when my widget as a recall value of 0 in variation 1 with “Also recall on load” checked, and a value of 100 in variation 2 and “ignore variations” is checked ?.. Hummm… I would like to be in a situation where the answer is obvious to me :thinking:

@David-san If you have multiple variations and use “recall on load” for a widget that does not ignore variations the situation is unclear as you could be saving your gig with variation “2” which will then get activated on reload, but the recall on load value could override it and modify that value.

Basically - you have to use this option sensibly and ask yourself why do you want it. All values in variations (except the ones with ignore variations) will be properly recalled on load. There is no need to specially enable this options.
This option is useful only in situations where variations are ignored. For example - you have a volume slider that you do not want to change in variations, but you do want it to get reset to certain value when you reload the gig.

Maybe we should automatically enable “ignore variations” when this option is selected?

That would be a good idea to automatically check “Ignore Variations”

Added to our TODO list… Thanks.

Ok I will of course try checking “Ignore Variations.” But must say, at this point I have no variations at all, just eight rackspaces.

That’s probably why I am confused with this. When “recall on load” is checked, this should always recall the explicitely “saved” value without ambiguity (I mean the value display on the right of the “recall value on load” option). Idem for “Also recall on activate” when a variation is activated. With “ignore variations” unchecked I hence don’t see any ambiguity. If a widget value has to be recalled to the explicitely saved value, it simply has to be recalled at loading or at activating time whatever is was before!
I find this option usefull if I want to play with rackspaces in a gig file, but don’t want some specific widget values to be modified whatever I am modifying or saving in the gig file. And I didn’t notice any complain in the forum regarding this possibility. All the complains come from values being not recalled to the explicitely saved value when users are waiting for these values to be recalled.

If “ignore variations” is checked for a widget, it understand that its value is the same in every variation of a rackspace (ignore variation = no more variation for this widget within the rackspace). So in my opinion, it should be “recalled on load” to the same value for all the variations. Idem for the “also recall on activate” option. But currently this, value can be different for each variation, and this is very ambiguous to me! Also the “recall on activate” option is ambiguous to me when “ignore variations” is checked: will it be recalled at each variation activation even if the value is supposed to be common to every variation or will it be recalled the first time the rackspace is activated like described in the fly over information text? This is ambiguous to me, because the same option “also recall on activate” could sometimes applies to rackspace and sometimes to variation.

So really, I don’t think activating “ignore variations” automatically could make thing less ambiguous. Having the same value recalled for every variation when it is checked, yes.

And I also noticed that if you check “recall value on load” and “also recall on activate”, and then uncheck “recall value on load”, “also recall on activate” is unchecked automatically which makes probably sense. But if you then check “also recall on activate” again, “recall value on load” is not checked again automatically, which I think, should be the case.

Ok unfortunately checking all the “Ignore Variations” in all the racks did not fix this issue. Right now I’m just watching my expression pedal widget which is controlling either volume, expression pedal (VB3), or gain in a Gain/Balance plugin. I can’t find any rhyme or reason, but I would say that probably every 10 or so rack changes the pedal goes to 100 instead of the set value. I never see it go to any other incorrect value than 100. And it seems to be the same couple of rackspaces each time.

I guess I need to submit a support ticket? Particularly as my thread seems to have been hijacked. Which believe me, I don’t mind. I too have had a very hard time grasping this aspect of GP. and can’t say I fully have really.

Recall on Load

The concept is that, even if you play around with widgets during the course of your live performance, when you next reload a .gig file, your originally stored values will return

Yes exactly. I create a gig file with the widget values how I want them for the gig. Every time I reload that gig file those values should be the same. I don’t need to do anything more for that to happen… the piano will be soft again in that rack, (per the manual example). People are saving the gig file at the end of the gig??? All I can figure is that you have played a gig or are messing about and you made a change to a widget that you would like to keep, but you have also made other changes along the way that you don’t want to keep, so simply by checking this option you can save just the change/changes you want. However, I already have to have this checked so that I can check the additional “Also Recall On Activate” so that my widgets return to the saved value when changing racks. So the above application would not really be available to me. But I must surely be missing something …Save (Update) Rackspace to Gig File seems to be the way I would go about this functionality.

Also Recall On Activate I totally understand and appreciate the option to have the widget either retain its last used value or to revert to the default value when changing racks (although personally think the default setting should be to revert to the default value). And again, the way this is coupled to Recall On Load confuses me.

Ignore Variations This just makes my head hurt when I start thinking about it… if you don’t make any changes to a widget in a variation isn’t it by default not going to change when you go to that variation? As it is, luckily I can ignore this, as I don’t use variations. All my widgets are mapped to a hardware controller so instead of changing to a variation, say to turn chorus on, I just hit a button and turn the chorus on.

OK please don’t get me wrong, I am sure it is my own ignorance and particular way of working that I am not getting this stuff. There seems to be a lot of flexibility for people to work in different ways, which is a great thing. And my lack of understanding,while costing me some time, is not interfering in any way with getting GP to do what I want…I just need the saved values for my widgets to be recalled correctly every time when changing racks.

When you just want the values be recalled to the value you saved a gig you do not have to to use all the recall things.
When you use only 1 variation per rackspace it is really easy.
Just save your gig and all the widget values will have the values as you saved last time.
Do not use recall on load.

Right, agreed. I thought I had acknowledged as much. It seems to me, however, that in order to have the widget values reset to the saved value when changing racks, I have to use Recall on Load so I can use Also Recall On Activate.

I also tried to convey that in fact that although it did cost me a lot of time trying to figure things out, which I never satisfactorily did, I have GP set up so it is doing exactly what I want,… except for the fact that the widgets are not always recalling their setting when changing rackspaces.

I am just curious though why anyone would you want to have different values recalled than the values that were saved? Wouldn’t you just save those “different” values as a different Gig file? And why would having additional variations change anything?

This recall on load is only to make sure the widget value is the one you always want to be.
Imagine you are in a rehearsal and make a mistake and move a widget in a rackspace.
But the rackspace was wrong, so you switch to the correct rackspace and move your widget.
Now you save the gig…

I fully agree.

Again, I fully agree with you. We need the “recall on load” option exactly for this.

Your initial thought has just been a little bit extended :innocent:

I appreciate your help and patience @pianopaul I do understand your scenario and I think I alluded to the same basic usage above. Wouldn’t you also need to be careful to remember to un-check “Recall…” for that widget when reloaded… so say at your next rehearsal you don’t make a change to that widget that doesn’t get saved as expected.

Anyway, I don’t have this functionality, because all my widgets already are checked for “Recall on Load” as they must to be able to have “Also Recall on Activate.” But that is perfectly fine because for the way I work “Save (Update).Rack To Gig File” is the much easier way to go. And I understand and appreciate for others working differently that the "Recall on Load’ option works better.

What I don’t understand is how it is explained in the manual. For example…

The concept is that, even if you play around with widgets during the course of your live performance, when you next reload a .gig file, your originally stored values will return.

By default this is what already happens when reloading your gig file…You don’t need “Recall On Load” for that. So the only way that sentence makes sense is if you are saving the gig file at the end of the gig ( I can’t imagine doing that, but ok, different strokes). AND you want one or some of those originally stored values NOT to to return.

So this aspect of GP has just caused a lot of head scratching for me. I actually think the manual made it more confusing for me.

You perfectly caught the concept, but regarding the manual, the “Recall on load” option, is perhaps not explained the best way. I am not a native English speaker, but what do you think from:

The concept is that, even if you play around with widgets and save your gig file afterwards, when you next reload it, your originally stored recall values will return.

And by the way, the manual is wrong, there is no “Snap” button to store the recall values, but a “Save” button, even if I better like the idea of a snapshot.

Regarding your head scratching, be happy to be working with single variation rackspaces, you don’t have to think about the “ignore variations” option with a different recall value in the different variations for a widget value which is supposed to be identical in each variation. And nobody, but me, cares about it… nobody… :sleepy:

HAHA… I care, and I definitely feel for you! about you and the variations!!. It bugs me not to be understand something in the program I’m working with, even if it is something I can get by without. And at the moment I have bigger fish to fry with my widgets not consistently recalling their saved value (yes not their snapped value).

While reading your rephrasing, I actually realized I still don’t actually get it… even though you say I perfectly caught the concept.

When you save a gig file, all the last used widget values are what is saved, no? So in @pianopaul example, if you save that as described, the value for the widget that was moved in the incorrect rackspace will be saved with the gig file.

The only thing that makes sense now to me is that you aren’t actually saving a gig file at the end, you are just shutting down. In that case, all the original stored values will re load, of course… except any widgets checked to Save On Load, which will load with ITS saved value.

Reading this:

I thought everything is clear for you.

You noticed that in my rephrasing I removed the “during the course of your live performance” which probably let you think of saving the changes after the gig. The best time for adjusting some widgets parameters and saving gig files is probably during rehearsals. Imagine I play a synth sound in a song starting with a cut-off filter that I modify during the song, then I jump to a Rhodes with a slow chorus which I finally prefer to be faster and to keep it like this, I store the gig file. But if I didn’t use the “recall” option for the cut-off filter of the synth in the previous song, next time I will play the gig, the synth sound won’t be OK. So as @pianopaul said you don’t need “Recall” for GP to keep your widget settings. In my example there is no need to Recall any stored value for the Rhodes, but it is necessary for the synth sound. Of course, if you save your modification per rackspace, things can again be different… GP offers many possibilities and I like this… until I understand how it works… OK, I won’t talk from “ignore variations” anymore…

@David-san Thanks, I do follow that… and it does definitely make sense on one level. You want to save your gig file (for whatever reason), but there was a change or changes you made to widgets that you don’t want t to be included in that save. So you can check “Recall On Load” for those widgets whose current value you don’t want included in the save and specify the value you want to be saved instead… or recalled on load… same thing right?

Here’s all the reasons that still doesn’t quite compute for me…

  1. You need to remember ALL the possible widgets you might have moved prior to the save… I wouldn’t even take that chance of not remembering something that might have gotten inadvertently moved. Instead I would just reload the gig file, make the change I do want to keep and save.

  2. Let’s say you are confident you know all widgets that were moved and you don’t want to be saved… you need to go to those widgets, go into edit mode, check “Recall On Load,” remember what the original value was, and then move widget to the correct position, and then hit the “save.” next to “Recall On Load.” But why??? With a few extra unnecessary steps, you have just moved the widget to the correct position to save with the gig file anyway,

  3. If for some reason you still think it is better to use Recall On Load, then once you reload the gig file, you need to remember to un-check those widgets you had checked… or go into widget edit mode to be sure this isn’t checked any time you want to make changes to a widget just so you don’t actually NOT save the value you thought you were saving.