Live Link - Live as Master Option


#1

I wonder if it would be possible to implement a ‘use Live as Master’ for Live Link?

Live Link is ace now it is implemented and I know the whole idea is that you can update the tempo from any connection within the ‘link’, but it would be useful to have GP be able to have an option to only set to incoming tempo info from Link.

The reasoning being is that in Setlist Mode it is really useful to set the song temp to override so that whenever that song is loaded all delays and everything else tempo synced are correct. Most of the time, if I am running backing tracks or anything in Ableton for that song the tempo will be set the same as the override and so all is good. But if I decided to make the track faster in Ableton, whenever I switch song part in GP it resets the tempo back to the override setting. Having GP just respond to live would get around this.

Arguably you could say - set the override in GP to match, or just use MIDI clock, but Live Link is so easy to implement and more solid than MIDI clock that I’d much rather use that.

Not a deal-breaker but would be a nice addition :slight_smile:


#2

Yes that is possible.
When you change the tempo in Abelton Live, the tempo in Gig Performer is changed, but you have to start from Ableton Live and not from Gig Performer.
But then Gig Performer can change the tempo as Ableton Live can.


#3

Yes, that is correct - but if you have the ‘Override’ option to led in the song properties then every time you select a new song part within that song it sets the GP tempo to the override value and that in turn sets the Live tempo.

Unless I’m doing something wrong…


#4

Yes that is LINK.
You cannot disallow to set the tempo when LINK is activated (you can read this on the Ableton FAQ)


#5

Is it possible to prevent certain apps from setting or changing the tempo?

No, this is not possible with Link. Each Link app has freedom to influence tempo equally.


#6

Is that a licensing thing?

Turning the request round a bit to work with this - an option to disable the ‘override’ when Link is enabled. That way the tempo can still be controlled via GP but the override doesn’t resend the tempo every time you change song part.


#7

(re: my licensing comment… As in, do the GP developers HAVE to implement it that way, or is that just what it SHOULD do. An option with a big, explicit “this will prevent GP from controlling tempo in Live!” would surely do the job if it’s not a licensing thing. Or my other suggestion above.)


#8

This is LINK, it is implemented by Ableton Live, has nothing do do with Gig performer development.
You can use Link as it is, or you do not use it.


#9

But surely there is some line of code in GP that tells the LINK API (or whatever it is) to update the tempo? So you would just have a switch on that (and I appreciate it’s not that simple).

I know LINK is meant to have always two way Comms and whatever the last device to update tempo is the tempo all devices run to, but unless as a developer who wants to add it in to your software have to agree to a license that states it must do that (in which case fair enough) then surely it is up to the developer to do what they want.

The other side of that - outside of licensing - is that the user expects it to work in a certain way. That is a totally valid thing and is probably the more important one, hence my suggestion of rather than an option to disable sending tempo out on LINK, there is instead an option to disable the ‘override’ tempo when LINK is enabled. This means if you manually altered the tempo in GP it would update anything else connected with LINK, but changing a song part in GP for a song that has an override tempo would not ask for a tempo change. In that way LINK still works exactly as it should, it’s just that GP never asks for a tempo change.


#10

Ok, I understand.
Maybe the developers can say something about your suggestions.


#11

Ableton LINK is a well defined technology. One cannot and should not try to break it - it has certain expectations as @pianopaul already mentioned.

I am a little puzzled by your request though. You either do or do not want to change the tempo when the song part changes?


#12

OK, that is fair enough.

I probably didn’t explain it well…(and it is quite difficult to actually explain succintly)

If I have a song that I normally do at 74bpm, then I want to set the GP ‘song’ with an override tempo of 74bpm. That means that if I am just using GP then the all the delays etc are at the correct tempo rather than inheriting whatever the previous tempo was.

If that song also has backing tracks, then the ‘master’ set file for that song will also be set to 74bpm. When I use Ableton for a gig, I will add all the different song set files in to a single large set file - they will be imported with the tempo that their ‘master’ set files had (in this case, this song will be 74bpm).

9/10 we will play it in that tempo and all is good. However, if the band decide we want to play the song at 78bpm then I will change the tempo of that song in Ableton. I want Ableton to be the master as this will have the most noticeable change if the tempo is wrong.

I’ve set my first song-part in GP and kick off the track in Ableton. LINK is enabled so Live sends over 78bpm to GP and all is good. However, when I select a new song part, GP then sends back 74bpm and suddenly the track is running at a totally different tempo than it just was and it’s a car crash.

Then - for example - at the end of the song we start to jam a bit and I actually want to tap tempo up a bit to 85bpm. I’m running a click in Ableton and the ‘song’ in GP is the same as before as I want the same tones and all is good. But then I change song part in GP and the tempo drops back to 74bpm which sends it to Live and the click drops to 74bpm.

If there was an option to ignore the override tempo when LINK was active then all of the above would be avoided. Live would still react to any genuine tempo changes (manually entered, tap tempo, etc) from GP, but it would keep one bit of software as the ‘master’.

I know it goes slightly goes against what LINK was designed for but in most situations there wouldn’t be a component (GP in this case) sending out a tempo change every time a patch is changed.

Obviously I could just turn override on or off for each song, but that becomes a bit of a pain for a long set list each time, when a simple option switch would sort it out. But maybe it is just me and I just need to get over it and manually change the song properties each time!

That was a really long post… sorry!


#13

(sorry, I’m.back again …)

Possibly to put it another way; is sending out the override tempo each time a song part is selected the way it should be? Even ignoring using Ableton, if you were in the example above and at the end of the song carried on jamming using the same GP song but tap tempo to a different tempo, then when you go to change sounds your tempo changes to whatever the override is.

So rephrasing my suggestion again; how about the override tempo only setting when the song is initially selected, but when changing song parts the tempo is not reset to the override but kept as whatever it is?


#14

I think I understand now… You normally play that song at 74bpm say, but then, for any reason you go up to 78bpm say so you change it in one of the “linked” applications and that changes it everywhere.
Now you switch to a different song part and it resets to 74 where it should stay at whatever you set it at mid song.

If this is the problem, then I suggest that you do not specify the tempo for each song part, but rather just for the entire song. Then if you change the tempo mid song and then switch to another part - the tempo should not get reset.

Another option is to not use link in GP and have your Ableton Live send a MIDI clock out. Have “Sync with external clock” option enabled in all your rackspaces and then as Ableton changes the tempo to whatever you want - GP will sync to it. It will never change anything else.


#15

Yes, absolutely. Sorry, it’s one of those things that is really simple in my head but then when you try to explain it, not so much…

Ah ok, then this is potentially where the issue is. I only have the override tempo set for the entire song; the song parts do not have the override box ticked; but when I switch song part it resets to the override tempo of the entire song. The video below shows this:

Video showing Song Tempo changing with song part

Is this how it should be?


#16

I guess it is as you could essentially jump into any song part - you do not have to play in sequence.

So I guess the real option for you is actually use the MIDI sync from Ableton to GP rather than link. It should work quite well actually.


#17

Although you do, don’t you? When you select a song (in which case all song parts are ‘collapsed’) it auto selects the first song part. I think?.. But even if you did jump in to any song part, would you want it to re-send the song tempo every song part change? Or having something like a ‘newSongSelected’ flag where it would send out on True and then set False on any other song part change until you change song?

I’m not trying to just keep on at you about this or tell you how to program your own software; more just wanting to make sure it is doing what it is meant to for your sakes!

As you say, MIDI clock would work and your workaround as above works OK - the tempo does jump very slightly when you change song parts, but I don’t think this would be noticeable.