Drum vst problem when changing rackspaces

I have a song based around a picking guitar. The guitar needs to strum in the chorus then go back to a pick again in the verse. I set up a second rackspace for the chorus to handle the strumming. I also set patch persist on for both rackspaces. The problem arises when the second rackspace is active as the drum vst from the parent rackspace keeps playing and clashes with the second. I disabled patch persist in both rackspaces and the drums now play ok, but the guitars are a bit glitchy during the change from rackspace one (picking) to rackspace 2 (strumming). Is there another workaround I could use that I haven’t thought of? I come back to an earlier comment I posted where I had discovered that variations are not able to be saved to allow them to be different from the parent rackspace. If a variation could be saved in this instance (allowing the guitar to strum), then the drum problem would be solved.

You could use different variations withing the rackspace and mute the drums when you switch to zhe 2nd variation.

I understand the problem that you have with the Strike VST, since i use it myself… as you know. :smiley:
Do you use diffrent plugins for picking and strumming or is it the same for both?
Easiest way to see what you are doing: Can you make a screenshot of that two rackspaces (front and back)?
Maybe this helps us to help you… :slight_smile:
I already have some ideas but it depends on what your rackspaces contain.

Hi Pianopaul,
You Said:
“You could use different variations withing the rackspace and mute the drums when you switch to the 2nd variation”

Trouble is, I can’t change the guitar to a strum using a variation because it won’t remember the pick when I change back to the verse.

Hi Erik,
Strike 2 is working very well for me as I have mentioned to you. For the guitars, I am using Music Lab Real Guitar in joystick mode with a PS3 wireless guitar controller in real time. The only difference in the two rack spaces is that in the first, the guitars are set to pick, and in the second the guitars are set to strum. I have attached the back ss only as I am not using any controls on the front views. There is not a lot of difference in the two screen shots.

I included screen shots but they are not showing. What has happened?

Picking ss

Strumming ss

Sorry, but my screen shots will not upload. What is the trick please?

Message to Erik. Sorry but my screen shots would not upload. Are you still able to share with me your thoughts around this issue?

Hi Erik. I would really like to see what your possible solutions are.

Hi Alan,
i had a look at the Real-Guitar Plugin web page (i have not installed it), to get an impression of what it does.
I supposed it was some kind of guitar amp plugin and you were playing a “real guitar”, but it is actually a kind of a synth-plugin that plays guitar sounds like a “real guitar”, and it is played via keyboard or usb-controller (=Joystickmode for the Playstation guitar controller).
If so, then my ideas propably won’t work (it was easier if it were just amp-plugins), but maybe there is a chance.
It all depends if it is possible to put two instances of the same plugin in one rackspace - and i think this should be no problem.
Try to put two instances of the Real-Guitar VST in your rackspace, configure one instance for picking and one for strumming.
In addition to those two, you also have your drum VST in that rackspace.
Then connect the outputs of all with a mixer block and control the mixer via widgets (fader or switches).
Actually you will permanenty play both “versions” of the guitar plugin at the same time, but you will only hear one of them (picking or strumming) while the drums will play on.
So you don’t have to change the rackspace, only one drum-vst would be playing and you might be able two “switch” (= very quick crossfade) between the strumming or picking.
Could this work for you?

Hi Erik. Thanks for all your trouble. That is a good idea of yours to have two sets of guitars but one muted. But I would still have to have a second rack space because the variations can’t remember their setting. So if I just had one rack space, I would have to stop playing to change to picking or strumming by turning a knob. I think that’s what you are saying. The guitars are fine when switching a rack space. It’s only the drum vst that clashes when changing as the next rackspace starts to play while the first is still playing and they are out of sync and sound real bad. I’m thinking of playing an outro to stop the drum from the first rackspace while the second has the drum plying a pattern. Haven’t tried it yet so I can’t comment. It’s a wet day here in New Zealand, so I will spend some time today trying to solve the problem. Thanks very much for your ideas. I’m really liking the Strike drum. Great suggestion of yours.

Hahaaa! …what about a second instance of GigPerformer which handles only the drums? :smiley:
So you had one GP for all the guitar things and an (more or less) independent GP just for the drums.
I guess, the two instances should also be able to be synchronized to each other.
I never tried to run multiple instances of GP, but there are some guys here who had done this already - maybe they can help here?

So you mean an extra GP with just one rackspace that plays drums nothing else? That’s certainly worth trying.

Hi Alan,
yes that’s exactly what i mean.
But let me ask you: How many diffrent sounds do you play within one song?
As far as i understand your first post, you have only two guitar variations (and the drums of course):
This means:

  1. The drums
  2. Picking (for the verses)
  3. Strumming (for chorus)
    You solved this by creating diffrent rackspaces/variations (just two, right?) for picking and strumming and you switch back and forth wether you are play the verse or the chorus? This means you have just one sound(preset) for strumming and one for picking.
    And it means you have to do something to have the rackspaces switched (manually?).
    So if you set up a rackspace like i suggested above you don’t need two rackspaces or variations at all.
    This all happened within one rackspace and the switching (that you now have to do anyway for changing your rackspaces) would mute/unmute the two Real-Guitar blocks.
    Maybe there’s a thing i haven’t gotten yet, but in my opinion this should do exactly what you described.
    But the option with two instances of GP should also work, i just think that it could be more difficult to handle… don’t actually know. :slight_smile:

Hi Erik. The picking and strumming are controlled by a program change sent by OnSong as my main midi controller. I’m switching rackspaces automatically by OnSong. The RealGuitars that I use don’t have a midi command to switch from picking to strumming. That’s why I have to do it using two rack spaces. So not sure if what you have suggested will work.

In a variation, is there such a thing as a mute button? If there is, can it be muted/unmuted by a midi command? If that was possible, then your idea could work Erik.

“The RealGuitars that I use don’t have a midi command to switch from picking to strumming. That’s why I have to do it using two rack spaces.”

Allright, i suppose you don’t have to use multiple rackspaces or rackspace-variations at all.
Just put both of the RealGuitar-Styles into one rackspace (= two separate vst blocks) and mute/unmute either of them via midi command… maybe you might need a small script that “translates” the incoming midi-command for switching between the “strumming-module” and the “picking-module”, but i think this won’t afford real wizardry. :wink:

I think i better put up a small rackspace example to show you what i mean. (But not until afternoon, i am at work at the moment where i don’t have GP available) :wink:
What command is sent from OnSong to switch the rackspaces (or what would you like to use)?

Yes, after I posted I realised what you meant about muting/unmuting. Or even #cc7@zero and #cc7@127 to do the same. However, I don’t know if the incoming midi channels on each Real Guitar can be changed. I would need them different for each guitar. In OnSong, I’m just sending a midi program change to call up each rackspace. Thanks for your help Erik.